Courtenay

Agreed, first time back to anything will result in some soreness; best way to minimize it is to ease back in with shorter, gentler runs the first few times until your body is used to the pounding. Rather than cement or pavement, try dirt trails, cinder tracks or the like. And for heaven's sake, if you've been running on a treadmill and have some good mileage racked up, remember that the surfaces are vastly different and trying to do the same mileage outside is asking for stress fractures, shin splints, or other "overuse" injuries from too much, too soon.

And one other statement you (DPS) make is very valid -- about not knowing how to pack properly. I agree, if you're going to do something tough, learn how to go as light as you can. BUT HAVE THE STRENGTH BEYOND YOUR OWN PACK WEIGHT so that if you need it, you have it, and more to spare for emergencies.

DPS wrote: <<I believe running and lifting weights makes one stronger and faster than hiking with a heavy pack. I find it ironic that you would quote Twight yet ignore that most basic premise of his. He never suggested hiking with a heavy pack as good training. Long trail runs ("hour long flat runs gain you nothing") intervals, and weight lifting are his recipe. >> I think we're dealing with semantics here; I actually totally agree with the statement above (weight training, intervals and appropriate cardio -- maybe not running per se given a person's structure, mass and knee history), but the fact that Twight doesn't suggest carrying a heavy pack as training doesn't exclude the fact that it works -- it does for me and others I know -- I believe there are several ways of getting to the end result: fast, strong ascents. I agree 100% with you (and Twight) about the importance of being strong (I too lift and have done so for nearly 20 years) and cardiovascularly fit (whether that has to include "running" in the strictest sense, I disagree -- EFX, hiking, step aerobics, biking (YES, biking, folks!) and so forth are all adequate substitutions if someone prefers less jarring impact activities). I guess the point I'm trying to make is IF someone IS NOT LIFTING WEIGHTS (as I see to be the case, unfortunately, more often than not when climbers get too busy) THEN one way of getting stronger legs is to load them functionally BY CARRYING A HEAVY PACK ON SOME OUTINGS-killing two birds with one stone if you will. I'd FAR prefer that they do their workouts that include squats, deadlifts, cleans, jerks and the like in the gym, BUT if they AREN'T, and they can get some strength endurance in the mountains, then that's what I'm going to have them do. I DO think we're on pretty much the same page here, I just hope you can understand what I end up seeing most of the time -- the first thing people tend to drop is intervals and hard strength training. They're both tough workouts if done at a level that's going to be beneficial. And furthermore, if I can move 65# up the mountain and keep up with everyone else carrying a lot less, then by golly I'm going to have absolutely no worries when I have to carry 30# when it counts. Make sense?

Ditto JoshK's experience -- I've seen someone on creatine suffer severe quad cramping coming down Mt. St. Helens one week, then a few weeks later, having changed nothing in his routine but cessation of taking creatine, having no problems whatsoever with cramping. That's not to say that ALL people using creatine will have trouble with endurance events, but I certainly don't recommend it to alpine climbers with lots of endurance -- now, crag, rock or sport climbing may be a different story completely... IF you choose to use creatine, be aware that some of the initial gains will be retention of water, AND be sure to load it properly -- consider taking it with grape juice, which has a high glycemic index and will "send the creatine directly into the muscles" (for lack of a clearer way of explaining what happens.)

Uh, if both your legs are straight, then this actually is a hamstring stretch more so than calves. Try standing on the edge of a stair (as though you're going to do calf raises) and drop both (or one at a time) heels down toward the floor, keeping a very slight bend in the knees and tightening the glutes so you feel the stretch all the way up the backside of the legs. Another calf stretch is to stand facing a wall and place the toes of the right foot against the wall (right heel maybe 5-6 inches away from the wall) and then try getting the right knee closer to the wall -- oof, VERY good stretch. Try 'em.

"Stretching" by Bob Anderson is one of the most commonly referred to books on stretching. RE: yoga, some of you might be interested in reading the article at the following link: http://www.bodyresults.com/E2YogaForClimbers.asp and also http://www.bodyresults.com/E2YogaStretch.asp for tips on how to get started. Any of you who would like to be notified of new articles as they're uploaded can subscribe to the Body Results' free montly newsletter by sending an e-mail to trainer@bodyresults.com with "Subscribe CC" in the body.

SS, glad you're feeling better. Yes, sounds like it was a case of overtraining. Might want to try some weighted calf raises instead on occasion (since repetitive movement over and over such as 300 calf raises will compound the problem) and stretch those calves well.

Eric8: <<My opinion on the weight issue is you need to address your strengths and weakness. When your pushing yourself up a slope is it your lungs or legs that slow you down. If its your legs put some weight in a pack and have at it if its your lungs go trail running. >> 100% in agreement here. I've seen people with marathon endurance suffer on climbs because they couldn't carry the weight. And I'm sure there are some really strong people who suffer because they lack cardio endurance. Maybe the people I've seen lately have been uncommon examples -- little cardio, lots of strength, and doing just as well as anyone else on the mountains because their bodies were used to extremes in strength. Not saying that's the case everywhere. Yes indeed, figure out your weaknesses and work on them first, be that learning how to pack less and carry lighter weight, get your body stronger so you can carry more weight, or blast your heart and lungs so you have the cardio capacity of a horse. 'nuff said.

<<Courtney is correct when she writes that the only way to train for a climb that requires one to carry a lot of weight is to carry a lot of weight. The thing is, I can't think of any climbs that require one to carry a lot of weight>> Well, when we're more experienced climbers and have learned all the shortcuts with saving weight by taking a second mortgage out on the house, then you can do all sorts of fancy climbs with minimal weight. HOWEVER, I have yet to see very many people on a first attempt of Denali, for example, go with anything less than 70# (in several carries, maybe, or pulling a sled) -- it just ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN. So as Obsydian points out, if you're going to have a 40-50# pack on your back for a climb in the Cascades, train with 60 so 40 feels light. As Marc Twight says in his book, "Make yourself as indestructible as possible. The harder you are to kill, the longer you will last in the mountains." If you only train to carry 30-40# and your climbing partners have trouble and need to have you help with group gear and you haven't trained with that kind of weight, you're going to tire yourself out. Danielpatricksmith, points well taken, but I hope you see the other side's values as well.

The scoop on anaerobic vs. aerobic: sure, you can do low-intensity cardio until the cows come home if you're in pretty good shape (and this sort of training is crucial if you're going to be doing something like alpine climbing that requires long approaches.) However, if you're trying to reduce bodyfat, the long, slow aerobic activity burns more calories only because you're able to go longer, it DOES NOT improve muscle mass (it actually can be detrimental, catabolic in fact, which is why power athletes like Olympic weightlifters or powerlifters will generally do little to no cardio EXCEPT for heart health OR intervals for fat burning). High intensity interval training CAN -- think of the muscles on sprinters, for example -- yes, they lift, but they also do repeats and repeats and more repeats with varied recovery periods. By including high intensity interval training, similar to strength training, it's not DURING THE EXERCISE ITSELF that you're changing the body composition and burning the extra fat, but it's the metabolic altering AFTERWARDS (in the 2-3 days following strenuous activity) that the body has to compensate, repair damage, and get you prepared to battle the next bout of intense exercise. All those trainers out there telling people to do 45 minutes at 60% MHR need to understand exactly WHY they are having a client do that -- they MIGHT THINK it is for low-intensity fat-burning, but it very well could be instead that it's more appropriate as a post-intensity "recovery" workout instead. Teachers still teaching the "low intensity for optimal fat burning" method should really be changing their tune. REMEMBER, this is NOT to say that low intensity workouts are bad, they have their place for the alpinist, BUT for FAT BURNING, it's not the sole answer.

<<I am trying to increase power, my endurance is okay for now. That being said, if one wants to increase both; is it appropriate to alternate during a work out, from week to week or go through a couple month power phase and then work on an endurance phase. The later is what I had intended. >> Interesting you should ask this, because one of the programs people use for climbing is the model 4-3-2-1 (endurance, power, power-endurance and recovery, each in weeks) that I myself have had people try in the past. HOWEVER, another school of thought (Dave Tate / Louie Simmons of powerlifing fame) believes that including appropriate amounts of strength, endurance, power and other sport-specific components on a regular basis is better than long times between components. In other words, look at what's lacking in your program and spend more time bringing up the weaknesses. If you feel your calves need more power for dynos, you're going to want to include hops and maybe jumping rope to give them that burst you'll need with bodyweight only; if you need strength for strenuous alpine routes carrying a heavy backpack, then you'll need to do the latter. Finally, to cover all the bases, you could do something like a 5, 10 and 20 rep scheme (heavy, moderate and endurance) to hit as many of the fibers as possible. Best is to try a variety and see what works best for you.

Using the great TR from the Feb. 24-25 ascent via Gib Ledges, a group of 7 of us set out to try it this weekend. Saturday was picture perfect, calm and sunny, with spectacular views. Enough snow to use snowshoes, though some people were heading up just in boots (complaining about postholing in places.) The gate didn't open until 9:25 and we were told at Longmire Museum that we had to wait until 10 to get permits up at the Jackson Visitor Center. So we were unable to leave from the cars until about 10:45. One climber decided to turn back due to a sciatica flare-up; we waited for our partners so we could all split up the group gear. Another friend from another team was having asthma issues, so we took on more group gear for that party. We were later to Muir than anticipated, but were fortunate to find nobody else in the hut--so we went right to boiling water and cooking food so we wouldn't use energy clearing tent platforms. Saturday evening was calm and still, great sunset and starry skies. There were 6 groups planning to try for the summit: 4 via GL, one via ID. We'd had 2 people in our party (who knew the GL route) leave the climb at the last minute, so we thought we'd strike out on our own and try ID via Cadaver Gap, which meant we'd be breaking trail. At this point my goal was just to see how far we could get before the anticipated front would come in -- would it be noon? 3? 6? At 3:30 a.m. Sunday we could see the early GL team heading for the ledges; still calm at that hour, and clear. Two of our group stayed behind, so a few minutes before 5, 4 of us headed for Cadaver Gap. The new snowfall was perhaps a foot deep, though in places it was merely 1-2 inches where the snow had been scoured away, and where spindrift had collected we were moving through knee-deep or worse snow. Near the top of Cadaver Gap the wind had scoured most of the snow away, and as we made our way up through the ice blocks the sun came up casting a beautiful glow over everything. Still no wind. Until 7 a.m. sharp (at about 11,200') when we were on front points and the spindrift started swooping down from the upper part of the mountain, right into our faces. Within minutes we'd downclimbed to the deeper, softer snow and cast glances up and left to the GL route to find one twosome making their way quickly down and the 3-some inching left rather than right -- all teams were turning back. No summits that day. Amazing how the mountain can go from peacefully still to hostile in merely minutes. By the time we retreated to Camp Muir the winds must have been 30-40 mph, with clouds in the valley moving quickly uphill, and spindrift whipping around everywhere. Even as we packed within the confines of the hut, we could hear the winds picking up minute by minute. After we'd packed up and started heading down (9 a.m.) we encountered white-out conditions from about 9200' to just below Pan Point. Some of us opted to use crampons going down the now-icy (from new precip Sunday morning over melted snow Sat) approach to Pan Point; others downclimbed in their snowshoes. By the time we reached the cars it was raining/snowing; a pair had been heading up to ski, an RMI group was going up for winter mountaineering, but nowhere NEAR the hordes up there on Saturday. A grand winter adventure.

Rather than ankle weights on the ankles, why not train with the boots you're going to be wearing? And yes, carrying extra water weight and then dumping it at the top is a great way to train, just make sure by the time you're doing your climbs you can carry down whatever you carry up. We've got all these tips and many, many more in our Train to Climb Mt. Rainier video (2002) complete with a 6-month conditioning program available at http://www.bodyresults.com/p1rainier.asp.

For a list of possible conditioners along the I-90 corridor, check out http://www.bodyresults.com/S2I90hikes.asp; for more reading on trekking poles, we have an article up at http://www.bodyresults.com/E2trekkingpoles.asp with the caveat that if you're going to be doing glacier climbs, you'll want to be sure to wean yourself off using poles so you can be used to having hands on an ice axe for self-arrests; regarding pack weight, the best way to train for a climb that will require you to carry a lot of weight is to ... get used to carrying a lot of weight. Running ONLY, flat, unweighted, is NOT the best way to get ready for climbing. Trail running is a little better. But carrying weight to get your legs properly conditioned for the added strength endurance required definitely helps probably 95% of the people I've trained.

Those are "step mills" and are actually (IMHO) better / more of a match to mountain climbing than most traditional stairmasters; they also seem to be easier on people's knees... But as they say, there's nothing quite like climbing to train for climbing!

And then there's always 1-legged calf raises (using the Smith machine, leg press, Nautilus, hack squat machine or dumbbells) -- excellent way to make sure each leg is developing evenly, and especially useful if you're limited by a certain amount of weight available for use in a certain gym. Be sure to vary the reps/weight scheme (sometimes train for power, other times train for endurance) to maximize both.

To clarify, I got to this thread a bit late and Jon must have seen something that was inappropriate and pulled a bunch of spray. By my subsequent editing of Larsen's statements I was simply trying to clarify a few things -- no hard feelings, eh Dan? I didn't see what was originally posted or what was pulled...

Hmm, that was a "corner of the napkin" calculation, I guess the "serving" of beer I was talking about was smaller than a pint... It's not "lite beer", just LESS BEER -- which will ALSO help in getting rid of the 15 pounds. POINT IS, if you're consuming more than 150 calories of alcoholic beverage a day (7/week) and you reduce in half or all, then you're going to lose 7.5-15 pounds WITHOUT CHANGING MUCH ELSE IN YOUR EATING PLAN. Pretty cool, huh? Sorry guys...

Jon, FOR FAT BURNING and body comp changing, high intensity interval training (like strength training) does more in the long run since the body has to recover from it like it does a hard strength or climbing workout. HOWEVER, for most alpinists, you still need the endurance training in order to keep up with the goats out there who boogie up the mountain side, so I'm NOT saying exclude moderate intensity cardio, but BE SURE to include 1-2 interval workouts a week. As for rotational exercises, if you're going to be twisting and turning during climbs (any overhangs will have a component of it) or alpine outings (shovel snow, lift your backpack onto your back, etc.) you're going to have to load the spine in rotation...

Actually, I'd modify Dan_Larson's "3 things needed" by saying 1) high intensity interval training, 2) appropriate strength training to increase lean muscle tissue and boost metabolic rate, and 3) APPROPRIATE nutrition -- some people will have good results with Atkins, others (who need plenty of endurance) may find they totally crash on merely 60 grams of carbs a day (I know I personally could never, ever go that low for more than a day or two without seeing major downturns in my aerobic capacity, and my performance is far more important to me than aesthetics). Finding the appropriate nutrition plan is as individualized as appropriate workouts, it takes trial and error, records of what works and doesn't work for you, and willingness to try new things rather than continuing to do the same things over and over...

Ah, the classic debate over the best way to lose the love handles. Remember, men tend to store any fat there first, so it's the last to go. Doing hundreds of crunches won't remove it (no such thing as spot reducing) but to have a strong core that will help with climbing, you need to include exercises that will translate directly to climbing -- our Feb-March Body Results newsletter (due out next week) will have an article focused on just this topic. If you're trying to build strength, ADD WEIGHT to the abdominal work; if you're trying to lose bodyfat, CHANGE YOUR NUTRITION and ADD INTERVALS (high intensity Interval Training or HIIT) such as those at http://www.bodyresults.com/E2FartlekIntervals.asp. And finally, limit alcohol as much as possible (what, you traitor, Court, what are you SAYING!!!???) as alcohol carries a hefty 7 calories/gram, vs. protein 4cal/gm, carb 4 cal/gm, and fat the biggest punch at 9 cal/gram. So yes, in terms of energy the body can use, alcohol is pretty much EMPTY calories and reducing consumption by merely a beer a day (150 calories) means that with no other changes, you'd lose (or keep gaining) a whopping 15 pounds A YEAR. How do you like them apples???

Colgan's book has some good advice if you can ignore the "All Natural Muscular Development presents..." (demonstrating his personal bias/sponsorship); another one that might be useful is Nancy Clark's Sports Nutrition Guidebook. Mark Twight's book Extreme Alpinism also has some nutrition pointers. But when in doubt, and when you're getting serious about it, find a Registered Dietitian who can help personalize your program for you based on your sport, body's nutritional needs, etc.

Fleblebleb, you may find the "cure" in strengthening your hamstrings -- in order to gain more muscle balance and transfer some of the work to the posterior chain (glutes and hamstrings) and away from (or at least to assist) the quads. For those interested in hamstring exercises, check out a few pictured at http://www.bodyresults.com/E2Hamstrings.asp. And yes, the ITB stretch from Runner's World is a good one; you may also want to stretch the piriformis, as pictured at http://www.bodyresults.com/E2AlpineTraining.asp, which is an article focusing on pre-season conditioning hosted on the Body Results website and at the electronic magazine site, Dolfzine.

If it is plantar fasciitis, the following article may be of interest to you on how to get rid of it while still remaining as active as possible: http://www.bodyresults.com/E2plantarf.asp Good luck and let us know what the doc says!

FYI for those interested in the latest information: the 220-age is indeed a very rough estimate of max heart rate; a better formula might be 207-(.7*age) which in a nutshell means that beyond the age of 40, recommendations for target heart rate will be higher, and below 40, a bit lower -- see http://www.bodyresults.com/E2maxheartrate.asp for a New York Times article from 2001 challenging this "maximum" theory. In a nutshell, using a heart rate monitor can be useful in detecting your own maximum -- do some high intensity intervals and see how high you can get your heart rate, then use that single number to calculate 60-85% or your training zone for most workouts. Remember, "it is not necessarily the maximum that matters: it is how quickly the heart rate falls when exercise is stopped" i.e. your recovery heart rate.