stevetimetravlr

Great photos and TR!

Thanks Joseph. You just re-confirned everything that I said.

I think Joseph that your negativity has done more to generate animosity towards Beacon Rock policies then the policies themselves, and it does not become you nor does it benefit the Park or the climbers. You act like a Ranger towards the climbers, and a climber to the rangers, when in fact you are neither.

It sounds like the guys were already on the route and climbing when they spotted the dead body in the trees, the guy obviously deceased. They finished the route and reported the body. It is sad the bears got to the body, but when someone is dead, they are dead and reporting the body a couple hours sooner would not have brought the person back. There generally is no urgency unless it is a crime, and probably it seemed pretty obvious that it was not.

I've been a wondering about this climb. Looks good when looking at it from I-84. Possible potential for other long routes?

yeah, buy a Portland area rock climbing guidebook from your local climbing shop. Thats a start.

joseph, you can't be serious.

Hi Alasdair I guess I don't see a big difference between a "government employee" visiting a raptor nest and a climber. A climber would try to stay away from the nest while it seems your interest was in getting close and photographing it. I don't mean to come down on you, but it seems hypocritical of us to forbid one user group but allow another. I can appreciate your efforts to stop blanket closures, so if that is the results of your efforts, I support it. and on that bet you offered, you'd loose.

Joseph, I remember a month or so ago when this was discussed you seemed to keep telling people to not rock the boat, that this is the best situation we can hope for, etc. So that is not really a pro active position, and although I and many other people appreciate your efforts for Beacon, I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to change a policy that is obviously way over the top. There are many areas where peregrines nest where the restrictions are not so restrictive. A more balanced approach might be in order. Nothing wrong with working towards that. Remember, LostCamKenney was injured and still is due to the fact that the current policy that relegates climbers to an very dangerous section of Beacon and seals off any of the standard climbing areas, even the Young Warriors section that is on the far side of the rock from the peregrine nest. This does not appear to be a common sense policy from any viewpoint, and with some dialogue with the powers to be perhaps this could be changed. But you keep telling people that we shouldn't hope for more, best we can hope for, etc. I am not sure why and really that does not appear to be an approach that most climbers support.

So we as tax payers get to pay people to "do research" on Golden Eagles and its ok for them and WDFW to disturb the birds, but its not ok for climbers who would not purposely climb to a nest to climb in the area near them. Very strange times we live in. What the heck is there left to "study" anymore we didn't know 30 years ago? I really find it intersting Alasdair you lecturing us "climbers" about the responsibility we have to avoid disturbing these birds while in the same breath you talk about how you disturb multiple nests as part of a WDFW project.

Steve: Well I didn't vote for you. King Joseph: You don't vote for kings. Steve: Well how'd you become king then? [Angelic music plays... ] King Joseph: The Lady of the Gorge, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Joseph, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king. Steve: [interrupting] Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the climbers, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony. You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you. If I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bitch lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away. Lost Cam Kenny: Come and see the violence inherent in the system. Help! Help! I'm being repressed! Joseph: Bloody peasant! Lost cam Kenny: Oh, what a giveaway! Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about! Did you see him repressing me? You saw him, Didn't you?

Well, maybe the solution is to round up the Beacon Rock Climbers Association and have a meeting and sort this all out. I assume Jim Opdyke is King, errr President? If Joseph was voted in, he can continue in his position with a vote of confidence. or alternately may have to step down if someone else is voted in. No need for slamming each other and talking about testicle size or the lack thereof. I imagine since everyone pretty much knows each other that climbs there on a regular basis, we could even hold a on-line meetin or forum. Is this a solution that would make you both satisfied? Or am I barking up the wrong tree....bark, bark, harsh man.

I have always been a Park Ranger in my own mind. As a citizen, I own the land, the park, the rock. I have a shared sense of responsibility and concern for the resources we all utilize. Therefore I place you all under arrest for wanton disregard for social norms and deviant behavior, and sentence you to 30 days of hard labor on the walls of Beacon Rock. Joseph, if you don't get the rock open shortly, you will be charged with obstruction of justice as these guys can't serve out their term. Get on it please, as these guys have a debt to society to pay.

you guys are flippin hilarious!

They don't make the Index tough guys like they used to! I guess thru the years having seen alot of people died or been seriously injured at Index. Broken ankles, broken ribs, as least you go on living. Index is a harsh mistress, and accidents should be assessed and learned from in my opinion. I feel these folks are the lucky ones, and I wasn't trying to condemn then. Just hope they make a honest assessment of what went wrong so that everyone can learn from it.

Great TR you guys. Way to keep after it. Sounds likeyou worked all the options.

super cool

A few more weeks and we should be good, does that mean a early opening this year?!

I agree with Joseph that is sounds like they were relatively inexperienced climbers on a multipitch trad lead at Index. I guess I have been sounding like a a-hole and thats not my intention, but I try to be hyper aware of belays and consequences. I don't know Malcolm why you say this is a high factor fall? Sounds to me like not. Short falls on short amounts of rope cause harsh fall factor, and sounds like they had some rope out. Also curious what you mean "If she was completely unprepared for it, then she is your hero"? She was off the ground belaying a lead climber on a trad lead, better have your shit togather if you are going to do this. and if you are not going to use a autolocking belay device, then you better never take your hand off the rope, and be prepared to act. My best wishes to the climbers for a fast recovery and the opportunity for reflection on what went wrong. Many people don't get a second chance.

The opening paragraph of this whole thread says the leader took a ground fall. If thats not the case, sorry, I am still not getting what you are saying. The belayer was belaying from the anchors at the top of the 1st pitch. The belayer was anchored in how? I assume with a daisy and rope into the anchors, and not that much slack. If putting allot of slack into the system, thats a mistake right there. Climber falls, and pulls belayer up some until a piece pulls and the belayer drops somewhat but aren't you supposed to be prepared for that? Feet against the wall, system tensioned and ready to lock off? How far can you get pulled up and dropped if you are anchored properly? Then there is so much slack in the system as the climber is falling, and..so what? You stay locked off. Are you saying the belayer let go of the rope/belay device? and then somehow recovers it and stops the fall thus burning their hands? I guess thats a more heroic version then being asleep at the wheel, but no matter how you crunch it, its a bad belay. Sorry.

I don't mean to be harsh. but rope burns on the hands after a ground fall are kind of a smoking gun. The whole thing sounds like a cluster

Why would I need to see her hands? It was stated that she recieved rope burns from belaying the fall and that translates to not being attentive on the belay and allowing enough rope to feed out to burn her hands equals bad news for the lead climber. I belay all the time on a worn ATC and I never get rope burns ever from holding a fall. But I pay attention.

Rob, you have another explanation for rope burns on the belayers hands?

If the female belayer had significant rope burns on her hand, that is THE major part of the problem. No way under any scenario should you get rope burns from holding a fall. She was obviously unattentive and not prepared to lock off and it shows. No offense to newbies, but not a bad idea to have them use a autolocking belay device, afterall its your ass up there on the line. If the belayer had rope burns, she dropped the dude.

ass kicking awesome!