rocky_joe

I've lived this nightmare so many times. and yet, an FA is still something I want to achieve. (thanks to layton for capturing my frustration so prefectly!)

just watched all 8 parts. great piece. good find dane.

Glad to hear you're alright. Did you guys not find the avi conditions to be too bad?

wait, Kimmo, you think John is arguing for argument's sake? Wow, now that's a distorted view of the conversation.

My picks are new, haven't seen more than 5 days on ice and 10 or so on snow. Mostly, what it comes down to is that, being laid up with my knee surgery, I can't climb an am just trying to find a new way to pass the time. i emailed Petzl about getting the head weights and am waiting to hear back. Also, found a place with cheap Cobalt bits. Thanks for the tips. Another question, I was reading into the UIEE and CE ratings and notices that the Aztarex only has a B rating while the Aztar has a T rating. Any idea why? And does it matter?

I've got an Aztarex and am looking to give it a little mod. Dane, what you did with that pair you posted is sick and I'd like to get mine to be very similar. I'm hoping to do one additional mod though. As I am a poor college student (without pro-deals) I'm looking to keep my Aztarexes and not spend money on a WI tool. My thoughts are to machine a bolt hole to attach the Nomic headweights and give my swing a little extra weight for the occasional water ice pitch. I figure this mod won't do the tools them selves any harm, at worst I'll be left with a hole in the pick. Any thoughts?

Well, I can't speak for all Olympians and extreme athletes, but since I know two (Galen Rupp, 10k and Andy Wheating, 800m) and have seen several others training around town, I can say that they do not puke/pass out during workouts. Having, myself, trained at a really high level for middle distance for quite some time I can say that the only people who puke from working out are not in shape. Puking, at least when invoked by running, is a result of a poorly trained core...I can guarantee you there are no Olympic/elite level athletes who have this problem. As for passing out...if you do this there is something wrong with one of two things, either your nutrition or the design of your work outs. moral of the story, you might puke once or twice when starting really intense workouts, but it shouldn't and won't continue past the first few weeks. you should NEVER be passing out.

you start making those shirts and i'm buying at least. thanks for the laughs.

Wow, I didn't expect that kind of bollocks from the Oregonian. I suppose now that I should have. Fuckers.

Kenny, You're probably right. Thinking about it, the one time I did SS was at the end of the Traverse and since we came off the mountain in the am we saw a bunch of ppl. Could definitely see more ppl than Hood. How many permits are sold annually for MSH?

Chris, I'm well aware of how to get off the hill. The point I was bringing up is that there is this big sign in the Climber's cave. In essence it says that in the case of a whiteout you need to know the bearing from crater rock to the lodge so that you don't fall into the trap of walking off the miss. head. I have the bearing set in my GPS as do my friends, however I find it odd that there is this huge warning sign telling people to know a bearing so they don't die and then not include the bearing. It's like having a "blind turn ahead" sign on the road and not telling drivers which way the turn will go. I think we'll end up agreeing to disagree, but I still think that it would be worthwhile to have a ranger/ski patroller check the climbing permits once a day and make sure everyone who was supposed to be back is, or at the least sort out all the "out climbing" permits that are weeks old. Simply, all I'm advocating for is that the USFS put a little more effort into keeping climbers informed about the mountain (because yes there are idiots who haven't a clue up there) and that they keep themselves aware of the climbers on the mountain. I'm not looking for regulation or a babysitter, just an eye. DMUJA--that is the worst idea.

Chris, I did not intend to advocate for a Rainier style climbing ranger. I was trying to express my disappointment in the how the system in place is managed. I'm glad you've always had the permits available to fill out, I know for many this is not the case. I've climbed a couple times where my permit was a note left on a napkin. The part that really gets me about the current system is the blatant lack of attention paid to the climbers cave until there is an accident. I've NEVER seen a ranger in there on a day where PMR isn't doing a rescue. It would be nice to see someone going through the permits and giving the emergency contacts a call if the party is due back and hasn't signed out. Biggest pet peeve about the cave: the Mt. Hood Death Triangle board does not have the bearing that will safely get one from crater rock to the lodge!!! WTF?

I'm not sure that St. Helens and South Sister see more hikers than Hood. I've really can't see more people climbing south sister since for a large part of the year it is accessible only by a 4 mile ski. Hood, however, sees ascents in most every month of the year since access is never an issue.

Dane, you are spot on. I don't think that the relationship between number of accidents has much to do with this, but perhaps the efficiency in which the accidents that do occur are responded to.

Colin, I think you're pretty much right on. In the 8 times I've tried the hill, I've only seen the actual Wilderness Permit there 2x and the climbing form has been there maybe a little over half the time. (I always leave some note in case of accident.) But I would bet that us climbers pay more attention to the permits out of curiosity of what others are doing than does any authority (until there is an accident.)

One only need to fill out a Wilderness Permit to climb Mt. Hood. However, I think the last time I saw the Wilderness Permits available to fill out there was some time in mid-April. There are usually climbing permit sheets, but not always. Hell, having written that I doubt a mandate would be enforced, seeing as the few regulations that already exist aren't even fully enforced. FWIW, wrote my State Rep today. State Senator will receive a letter tomorrow.

Dane, Of the 138 people who have died on Mt. Hood since 1896 I found information suggesting that only 5 bodies remain on the mountain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Hood_climbing_accidents I still don't think that beacons could help recover more bodies. MLUs only work on Mt. Hood and even then there are MANY places on the mountain where they do not successfully transmit a signal. If we are going to focus on making a beacon mandate, I think it would be more useful to focus on PLBs which use satellite signal and could theoretically be used on any peak and not just Hood. (I still don't know if I would carry one.)

I don't mean to call them stupid, and I have taken some steps to contact a few reporters as I feel they could do a better job representing the climbers lost up there right now. An article is not subject to the same restrictions that a 3 min TV clip is (and it is with articles that i have the biggest problem.) I don't fault the reporters entirely; the fault is also on the culture that has developed in the media and to some extent an individual reporter cannot escape that. Again, I'm spending the day (when I'm not too drugged to type) writing both to stations and reporters in an attempt to provide them with some ideas on how they may better represent the decisions made by the three climbers. Regarding the conditions on Hood, as I said, I was up there that day. Weather was perfect and was not an issue. My problem with the article is that it makes the climbers who chose to continue to the summit that day look like idiots to the general public. I can assure you that there were no "person sized" ice chunks falling Friday-- I was there. The article did not need to be written, it adds nothing to the story about Luke, Katie and Anthony and makes them look foolish (to the general public) for attempting an ascent that day.

What a year! This was my second year climbing at all and 1st in the alpine. Reid HW Wy'East Leuthold Couloir South Side x3 Mt. Washington (OR) Mt. St. Helens Serpentine Arete, Dragontail Mt. Thielsen in Winter Middle Sister Bivy Onsighting .10b/c sport Redpointed .11a sport First trad leads (up to .9) First aid leads (after breaking a finger bouldering) First Ice climbs/leads Started volunteering for Eugene Mountain Rescue Attempts (turn-arounds) on several routes that helped build good judgment and humility in the alpine. Convinced my mom that she doesn't need to go into a depression every time I go climbing.

Dane, I agree about body recovery. It would be horrible to have lost a dear friend or family member and not even have their body found. I don't know that any beacon available would last long enough to assist in body recovery (especially if not found within a few days or weeks.) I will try calling the individual reporters. This is the one article (and comments below) that really set me off: http://www.kgw.com/home/Two-others-who-climbed-Mt-Hood-Friday-turned-back-79269457.html I met these two on the way down. The first said he was getting sick...some combination of AMS and reaction to the fumeroles. The second turned back because he saw some ice fall. My party continued up...the ice fall the article mentions was nothing more than normal winter ice fall (with no chunks larger than a baseball.) The article is completely misleading.

Dane, as much as I usually agree with you positions and evaluations of climbing gear and related topics, I'm going to have to disagree on this one. Even were it my climbing buddy up there I would not be calling for an MLU/PLB regulation. Would I want him to have had one? Sure, but a mandate is another monster entirely. PMR, among others have come out saying that they believe a mandate would increase both number of incidents and the amount of money spent on rescues (caused both by unnecessary action and more ill-equipped climbers). While the idea of saving more lives is a really nice though, beacons are not the way to go about doing it; education is. About the reporting-- I have now written two long letters to KATU and am moving on to the other PDX area stations with two main ideas: MLUs/PLBs should NOT be mandated and that their reporting of climbing rescues creates a false, unfair image of climbers.

Sorry to be blunt, but that is an awful idea. Basing a decision to rescue someone on their choice to carry a transceiver/beacon is a wretched idea, especially when you consider that MLUs and PLBs have been proven to be faulty devices at best.

Come on Katie and Anthony, stay strong, warm and safe. Keep holding on, the crews are coming.

MJ- the mandate would be for MLUs, which are way different and far less effective than PLBs. MLUs operate over radio waves, require line of sight for SAR purposes. PLBs- satellite signal, very effective. also about $500 instead of about $100 for an MLU.

i was having the discussion with my mom tonight. she's 100% for it, it's really hard to get her to understand all the reasons I'm against them being mandatory. Bill makes a point similar to the idea behind a lot of the ones I used with my mom. If we're going to make climbers carry beacons, then we have to make every hiker, hunter and mushroom picker take one whenever they set foot of pavement.