KirkW

Who are you debating this point with? Did I ever say you shouldn't carry a beacon? Take the kitchen sink for all I care. But it's not any business of your's to tell me what to take. And no...I think I've made it pretty clear that I'm not a hardman out knocking on deaths door every weekend. The hardest route I may ever get up on Hood might be Cooper's Spur. The bodies usually fall onto the Elliot so no...not a lot of maggots up there. I've heard the argument about climbers back in the day scoffing at the new technology. This is a different scenario entirely. All of those things you mentioned were introduced to fix a specific problem and more importantly they worked. Some of the old timers didn't see a problem with the way they did it and decided not to accept it. What's the problem? Should we force anyone rock climbing to use a harness and make swami belts a misdemeanor? Should it be illegal for me to climb Hood without crampons? Should I not be allowed to free solo naked?

I'm not making the weight argument because as you say it's not a 1 oz beacon that would hold me back. It would be the fat in my ass and the lack of proper skill set that would hold me back. But you are well aware that climbers OBSESS over weight and it's not up to you or I to tell them what they should take with. As far as the cost...shit dude... I'm a dirtbag who can barely afford gas money to get to the closest crag let alone another $3-400 gadget that Salem tells me I have to take with. Can someone please explain to me what the problem is? Are more people dieing and getting lost up there than is being reported? Seriously...I don't get up to Hood often because I can't stand the crowds but is there a huge problem with SAR screwing up on Hood? What is the problem that we are trying to fix? Is there anyone on this board that was involved directly with the last two high profile SAR efforts where people died on Hood? Do you also feel that "something needs to be done"?

cascadeclimber, I agree with almost your entire post, except for this part. I take such things along with me and have noticed no detrimental experience on account of having them. What good parts of your experience are you giving away to the inanimate objects you carry in your pack or pocket? Those things take nothing, only what you give them. Does the high tech textile engineering of scholler detract from having just a wool jacket? What about the materials science and engineering going into ice tools or ski construction--surely those things don't detract from the experience of having all wood and steel equipment. In addition, the newest McMurdo PLB is 5 or 6oz. I realise weight can be an issue, but at 6oz I can swing it, personally. And there is no reason that the weight won't go lower over time. At what point would a 2oz PLB be too heavy? I suppose there will always be someone. btw thanks for your website--have enjoyed a lot Are you serious? I've known plenty of people that cut off extra pack straps and strip everything in or on their pack to shave an extra ounce. Climbers obsess about weight because as pointed out priorly, speed is safety and weight decreases speed. Dane- Frankly I find your idea that regulations are needed to help with body recoveries laughable. If I'm dead I'm dead. No need to come get me. I don't have your thousand yard stare from all the near death encounters you have been involved in so I guess I'm just not climbing hard enough and my opinion doesn't count as much as yours. I'll try harder in the future. I still don't see what the problem is that people are trying to solve and you didn't explain to me how any of these new regulations are going to save people's lives. With all the death you've had to deal with I would think that by this time you would be somewhat hardened to it and accept it as part of the sport. Great to educate people and I would never tell someone that they couldn't or shouldn't take whatever they feel they need to take to make their attempt a success. But it should be left up to the individual to make that decision not some bureaucrat or an op/ed cartoonist.

Please elaborate on this further. Why do you think that something needs to be done? I don't understand what the problem is that everyone is trying to solve. I can't understand why you, a long time serious climber by the sounds of it, with massive amounts of experience and probably more real firsthand mountain knowledge than most of the "wankers" on this board, (including me)would feel that the general public needs to get involved in regulating in ANY WAY the circus that we know as Mt. Hood? People aren't perishing up there on a daily basis. It looks to me that PMR does a pretty damn good job of getting those down that can be brought down. They know the mountain better than anyone. Why would we kick them out of the discussion because we disagree with their opinion? If the people that are going to be putting their ass on the line to drag us "wankers" back to Timberline are in opposition to this kind of thinking than I guess rather than running my mouth because I think I know better I might just step back for a second and analyze my own opinion. Not that PMR is infallible but I sure as hell know that I wouldn't want to work SAR on that "shit pile". I'm left shaking my head at the fact that someone who's been climbing as long as you have would advocate for more regulations to a sport that demands self sufficiency over nearly everything else. The more we push our limits the closer we get to a line that we cannot cross. I think the people involved in the most recent incident were skilled, prepared and capable of climbing the route. Things went bad and now we're left to armchair quarterback from the comfort of our computers. Most likely an MLU, cell/Sat phone, and all the regulations in the world wouldn't have brought them down the mountain alive. This is the game we play. It sucks bad when we lose. Unless your advocating outlawing the game then imposing regulations on how we choose to play it will only act as a handicap on Hood.

Way to elevate the discussion. So explain to me again what business joe dip-shit has telling me what I need to carry with me up a choss pile so he can feel better about how easy it is for rescuers (with their "slick gear and cool patches") to find my body? According to the latest info I saw, climbers account for something like only 3% of all rescues in the state of Oregon. What about the other 97%? What are we doing to save them from themselves? I can't figure out what it is you are getting at. You don't think beacons should be mandatory but you do think that we as climbers should engage in asinine discussions with people who's only information in regards to mountaineering is what they see on TV and read from the Oregonian. NO... I don't want to waste my time talking with these morons. It's not my job to educate these idiots and yes I am "rabidly opposed to any sort of regulation or critique" as long as it is coming from someone who doesn't climb. I am happy to discuss this issue with fellow climbers which is what I thought I was doing on this web site. I respect the opinions of the other climbers on this thread that disagree with me and of course we can all agree to disagree. But don't make the mistake in thinking that just because you see the value in it that others will and should feel the same. I don't like electronic gizmo's of ANY kind in the wilderness. I can't tell you the number of times I've been hiking with someone who spent the entire trip fiddle fucking around with their goddamn GPS while telling me that my compass/ map was wrong. What do these people do when their batteries die? Follow me and my ancient technology back to the truck. Maybe if they had an MLU, ELB, Spot, Fastfind or whatever, they could simply activate it and the helicopter would arrive to whisk them away to the safety of the nearest starbucks. No thanks, I'll stick with my own skill set, a map/compass and a PBR. That's it, I'm done.

I think we should hand the mountain over to a private company that would be free to do whatever they want with it. They could claim it was for "safety" reasons that anyone wanting to climb would have to buy a lift ticket and rent a locator device to get above the Palmer. All other routes on the mountain would of course be closed. Poof...no more cluster fuck on hood. Thanks for your efforts Monty but as you can see it may just end up being a waste of your time. Sad, sad, sad. I can't wait until I can travel up a mountain in my own little personal, climate controlled ascent bubble and all risk will be removed from the climb. Perhaps then this d-bag with the crayons can feel good about trying save me from myself. Fuck that. (Sometimes I don't wear my seatbelt...while speeding!)

"Spray (2 viewing) If it's not climbing related this is where you post it. Be warned this forum is not for the thin skinned." NOOO! don't kill this thread, I've got nothing else to do today and I've enjoyed this thread immensely! Hooray for spray!

Couldn't have said it better myself... what a bunch of fucking self righteous d-bags.

+1 PM sent to OP

Last time I checked it was still free to climb Hood. The other mountains and places that Dane listed are funded by the people who climb them through fees or fairly direct tourist dollars. All you Portland climbers wanna pay every time you step out your back door? This whole thing just sucks. Experienced people have an ACCIDENT and now were talking about mandating that I carry an electronic gizmo with me every time I go for a walk in the woods. Every time something happens on Hood this subject comes up. We don't have money to take care of our roads and keep teachers in our schools but we're worrying about the government mandating what gear we carry? Seriously folks...how could they possibly enforce something like this with nearly 10,000 attempts every year? It would take alot of money. Money that we don't have as a state or a country. Not that it wouldn't be cool if the powers that be took an interest in managing the place...we all know it's a circus. Like I said...this whole thing sucks.

And you can eat your oatmeal and drink your coffee out of it. Steaming rubber bowl of soup or instant mashed potatoes makes a pretty sweet hand warmer too! They work as advertised. (the cup is too small IMO and is worthless) http://www.google.com/products?rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS344US344&sourceid=chrome&q=squishy+bowl&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=rEUoS47nMJHWtAPd87G4DA&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=3&ved=0CCkQrQQwAg

Yeah...you're right...heating the cartridge is key. I use a "squishy bowl" with a shot of warm/hot water and empty /add as needed to keep the fuel warm. I store the extra with me in the bag. This thing beats the shit out of white gas setups when it comes to using it on ledges or in other awkward places. I don't have a hanging setup yet but would like one. Wind has very little affect on the stove. I won't say none...but very little. I've used it down to 0 degrees F and as long as I kept on top of warming the fuel it was no problem. I haven't used the dragon fly much and I'm sure for expedition or longer alpine climbs white gas would be the way to go because the canisters are pricey and a pain in the ass sometimes. But for most of the things I'm doing in OR and WA it KICKS ASS!

Decided to check out Salt Creek falls for ourselves. It didn't look in to us...but we're noobs... www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1283449602344 We did stroll up to Diamond Falls and it looked better than SC Falls but you can't really see anything down in there without actually rapping in. The 200+ ft lower angle flow on the opposite side of the gorge was enough to keep us and our top rope busy. Had a blast! It was a bit thin in places but it seemed solid enough to me. I was shocked by how much ice I saw around me when I rapped in across from DC falls. Let me know if you wanna check it out the next time we get a good freeze.

Anyone been out to Salt Creek yet?

OK...so I was the one that was threatening to chop routes at Flagstone. I think it's ridiculous that the local climbing community tolerated it, but I'm not going to piss in your pond. I'm not chopping anything, I am just a total fucking noob spraying on the internet. I don't really give a shit about Flagstone bolts which is why I was on this forum looking for info about the mysterious Moolack. Since then I've realized that the info about Moolack isn't really secret, you just have to do a little digging and ask around. Like I said I'm a noob. As it turns out, CC was a good place to start digging but seriously guys...whats with the bitching, complaining and name calling. I couldn't give a fuck less about what El Jefe thinks of me but he was right for calling me out. I realized I was being the d-bag. Life goes on. Get the fuck over your issues and remember we do this for fun. It's not work. Checat-thanks for all the info. I'm looking forward to checking this place out. Give me a call if you need a belay slave-I don't melt in the rain. The sun is still shining in Corvallis. I'm going outside. Kirk Winkler 541-337-1340

http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/plab/data/500/menagerie_11-08_082_small.jpg Moolack looks just like the Menagerie? Thanks for the bolts on Rooster Rock though, I was hanging on them on Tuesday. The Callis route was a good time.

One of the best I've ever seen. Nice work. Do you have any pictures?

Don't know about the CO issue (it hasn't killed me yet and I've used it in a vestibule dozens of times) but I've had a Reactor for about a year now and my only complaint is the cost of the fuel vs. white gas but that same complaint would also apply to the Jetboil. And the damn empty canisters that are a pain to recycle. Other than that this is hands down the BEST stove I have ever used. Perfect size for two people, fastest boil/melt times available of any stove on the market. Consistent boil times (doesn't drop off nearly as bad as other canister stoves when it nears empty.) Good build quality. Absolutely AMAZING in the wind...I could go on and on. One of my climbing partners has a Jetboil that we used for over a year before I got a Reactor. We haven't used his Jetboil once since then. The only reason I would go with the Jetboil would be if I was doing a lot of solo stuff as it is smaller and you can pick a used one up pretty cheap on the web now. Good luck with whatever you choose but in my mind there is NO comparison between these two.

Nothing important was in the original posts and after posting them I realized that I was arguing with a troll which actually makes me a moron. I was looking for info about moolack and made a comment about the grid bolting at Flagstone since I had just got back from there. Was a little disgusted about the bolts and was just spraying that I thought they should go. I settled down and decided that I had better things to do. I've got a big mouth sometimes and the internet isn't exactly a difficult place to stand on my soapbox anonymously and spew. I'd rather not have to try to defend my own ramblings sometimes. Weak, I know, but delete them I did. Gone forever and even I don't really remember what I wrote. However that's all beside the point. I was just looking for info about Moolack and I got it. Thank you to those that have offered me beta. Looking forward to checking it out. With or without the group hug.

I actually came here and posted looking for some info about moolack not to start a bolt debate. I got off subject and realized I was dealing with a moron so I got rid of it. Don't really think sitting around flaming each other on CC is really a worthy endevour. As for it being weak. No deleting it wasn't weak...posting it in the first place was. I won't piss on the local climbing communities consensus but it's my right to think that you're all full of shit when you talk about climbing ethics. It's a fucking bolt ladder (2 actually) that starts on the ground for christ's sake and no body seems willing to call it what it is. Disgusting. With that said thanks for your hard work with bolt replacement. Whatever your opinion about flag I respect your work. And everyone can just settle the fuck down. Tvedts' bolt ladders are safe...for now.

I guess not everybody thinks you're so funny...got what I came for...later asshole.

Thielson is completely blown out of proportion by some people. It's easy class 4 in most places with a class 5 move or two if you go looking for it. Take your time and enjoy the view. Watch out for the newbs that are roped up on the summit pitch. They will be the most dangerous thing on this hill. I've heard people rate the summit pinnacle as high as 5.6 which is TOTALY rediculous. It can be done without making ANY class 5 moves. On the other hand...if you are just getting into this and unfamilair with class 4 scrambling then this may not be the best choice for a solo. It is quite exposed and a fall could be fatal. If you are comfortable on class 4 you will have a blast. If not... you are going to soil your pants. Good luck, have fun and be safe.

We tried it on Solstice (6/20) and got stopped at the crawl. No crampons, partners 50 lb pack, balls were too small. See photo. Walked on consolidated firm snow from 500 yards beyond the trail head. We gave up on following blazes after a few hundred yards. Navigating ourselves was much easier and faster. The snow in the photo is either garbage at this point or it's gone. The hike in was EXCELLENT considering we only hiked scree for about 1/4 mile up on the ridge. Doesn't happen often on Jack when the rest of the route is in. Get some. Sorry I didn't post this BEFORE this weekend.

Thanks for the info. Glad to know that it's at least open to Red Creek. We're going to hike in and see if we can find that log jam he's talking about. Hope it doesn't rearrange itself while we're in there.

So I can tell the Ranger that I have your permission then if we get busted taking them all the way into the hut on the North Fork? By the way we're ditching the bike idea and taking these instead...