KirkW

Yeah so I don't think this is the first bolt controversy to happen in climbing? Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. Without the beatards this site would be endless threads about different ways to tape your ice tools and hood TRs The fact that a new generation of climbers wants to take different tactics to the cliff is no doubt going to piss off the old guard. Again...something new here? Bolts are part of climbing as much as chopping bolts and bitching about bolts is part of climbing. Seems like it's always been this way and it is mostly certainly not going to change anytime soon. The internet provides everyone a place to slug it out without ending up with assault charges. As long as it doesn't grow into a brawl in the parking lot who the fuck cares? Actually, who really cares if the beaconits get in the octagon with each other? Winner take all. I'd pay good money to watch kevbone and joseph take a run at each other. Well worth the drive to Ptown.If you're not inclined to watch that sort of thing then don't. It would be nice though if you guys could schedule that after beacon opens back up cause I haven't done YW yet and I'd sure like to cause I hear it's pretty stellar. You could also choose to ignore the beacon forum and spend your time lubing your cam(s) or bouldering or something I suppose. Fuck it. Get over it and go climbing. Do it in the best style you can and fer fucks sake...have some goddamn fun.

wow tazz...guess it's the wrong week to get on your nerves...settle the fuck down people. He obviously meant no harm and the fact that some dumbass in a newsroom can't tell their ass from a hole in the ground is funny shit. I doubt the family of the poster will be combing these threads in the hopes of understanding what happened. If they are then someone should tell them that interweb forums are a piss poor place to look for solace. Sorry about the tragedy and all, of course, but this is mountain climbing after all. People die and we talk about it because is scares the shit out of us. Humor is another way to deal with it. WTF did you expect?

I don't think anyone takes any of it to serious (or at least I don't). It's a farce right Kirk As Ivan pointed out at one point we usually don't call each other cock smokers in person Well most of it is a farce. That part about still living with my mom is true. It is, afterall, just the interwebs. Keep rockin' Cord man!

someone wake up on the wrong side of the bed? really, dude, what we are engaged in here re: the "rock sheriff" is what you call "playful banter" -- i.e., goofing around, having fun, etc. you should lighten up and give it a try some time. and as for whether i get outside at all, well, the answer is "yes". shoot me a pm if you'd like to come along. Oh... so now I'm the uptight asshole and this is all playful banter and goofing around. My bad. Thanks for clearing things up. I guess I'll just lighten up and defer to your obviously superior judgement and skill as both a well respected climber and prolific contributer to CC. Thanks for putting me in my place. I'll stay there from now on. And you can stop sending me PMs. I'm not ever gonna climb with you. You should get over that and just move on with your life. I hardly ever get out. All my gear is brand new and shiny. I don't even know how to use most of it. I weigh 300 pounds and haven't seen my penis in over a decade. I'm actually really afraid of heights and I still live with my mom. However I really aspire to be a climbing god like you someday. 8D

Hey Jefe, How come anytime someone mentions BOLT you show up and start flapping your jaws and flaming? I find it interesting that you never really have anything constructive to contribute to these conversations (or any other conversation as far as I can tell) but you are always involved in flaming anyone who even talks about bolt removal. Now that's bullshit. If you don't climb there on a regular basis (do you even climb outside at all?) then how about you mind your own business and let these guys figure it out themselves? Mmmkay?

Hey Will. Why don't you post a TR and tell us all how it was your partners fault that you got off route and go on and on about what a huge d-bag he is. Make sure you use his name though so we can all avoid climbing with him in the future.

HI EVERYONE! I usually hang out a Summit Post but some friends and I got this crazy idea of climbing Hood in a few weeks so I thought I'd post this here. I was wondering if any of you regular Hood climbers has a crystal ball and can tell me exactly what the conditions are going to be on the mountain? I haven't bothered to read the 7000 TRs on this site that have gone up in the last few weeks about hood nor have I looked at the three billion or so from over the last 10 years, so if you could just tell me exactly where to go and what to do and what gear to bring and how to get it done...that would be great. THANK YOU!

Troll?

So a google search gave me some rather interesting info, such as... http://www.bigwall.com/mescbeta.html Seems like no shortage of beta available (without the flaming)

thanks for the invite but I already knew about this place and I wouldn't consider it mandatory to have an invite from a local to visit...cool that you threaten to vandalize my vehicle though...makes you look really cool to the rest of that Bend climbing community that you seem to think you represent...why don't you post a name and some contact info so we all know exactly who it is that has the huge balls at cougar?

Good on you for trying to get people stoked on your local crag. All this "my own personal super duper ultra secret climbing spot that I can only show you if you take a blood oath, pinky swear and agree to hike in blindfolded" is total bullshit. And if I'm not mistaken the whole point of this thread was to get people talking about climbs that "NOBODY TALKS ABOUT" Unless it's sitting on private land and you are the only one with permission from the owner then you are just gonna have to deal with the fact that someone else might be there enjoying it as much as you are.

I don't think the comments were poorly worded. I think they were spot on. (no pun intended) I think this whole thing is nothing short of absolutely ridiculous. A bunch of social do gooders (and one butter fed hog) trying to save me from myself. Can anyone explain to me what the actual problem is that you are trying to solve? I'm sure the fact that the PLB company with the most to gain from this in the immediate future is pushing this legislation has NOTHING to do with the mountains of cash that would come his way if this were to pass. He surely just wants to save lives and hang out with his butter fed hog. Please take your PLB and go home. Climbers do not need or want this rammed down our throats.

While I mostly agree with the above, as somebody who's spent way too much time on many of the climbing websites in the world, I have to take a bit of exception to the above. I know that some of the more or less regular posters there include the correspondents for Alpinist and/or the AAJ for Antarctica, the Eastern Alps, Chamonix, CIS, and parts of Spain & France. Of course, when they give good advice, nobody listens to a word they have to say, but ... I'm sure that lots of great people post over there but IMO the mods are a bunch of fucking wankers more concerned about pretty pictures and people's feelings rather than accurate beta and a good exchange of ideas. Time and again I've headed out armed with "solid beta" from SP only to find out that the person who posted it must have been blind, retarded or both. This isn't just once or twice mind you but several times. Sooner or later you have to ask yourself why the fuck you're bothering. After my last attempt to get them to correct a route page that had enormous, obvious and dangerously misleading errors about crevasses on a route that I had just climbed. I was banned because I wasn't nice enough in my suggestion that maybe they don't let 12 year old's post route descriptions and present it as the word of hardened alpinists. I am a noob... but I'd rather go out with no beta than beta from that cess pool. Lot's of pretty pictures though if that's your thing. ...and Will...posting his name was a pretty shit head thing to do in my opinion. I'd like to hear his side of the story. If Will Hockitt isn't your name please post your's as well so I know who else I need to avoid climbing with . Did you even read his website before you took off on your climb? Obviously a noob with a little bit of coin to spare. Again I gotta say... bad on you for dealing with this here instead of in camp. Shitty deal for all involved.

I didn't know you had the old blue book or that you knew how to read? Guess you're just a hardman waiting to happen. Anytime Justin...ready to check out some of those forgotten aid routes? We can take Joe with and he can be our rope gun on those 5.easy X's that Smith is full of. He skipped over actually learning how to climb and went straight to being a 5.12 hardman I guess. Should work out well for us.

I figured as much...maybe he'll be nice enough to post it for us.

I got one too. Absolutely brilliant guide. My only disappointment was the routes by grade section seems to be absent from my copy...of course you can only cram so much shit into one guidebook. Would be cool if you had that list on your website though! Thanks for all the hard work you put into this book AW. It's worth every penny.

Post his name if you want to but if I were you I'd be asking myself why I made the decision to continue climbing with someone when it was obvious they were a liability instead of an asset. I've turned around in the middle of climbs because it became obvious to me that the person I was climbing with was full of shit. It's all about personal accountability and instead of worrying about whether or not this might happen to someone else I would be spending the time examining why I didn't kick this d-bag to the curb as soon as I found out he couldn't operate a stove. WTF were YOU thinking continuing on? ...and summit post is a waste of time...so much bad beta mostly from people who don't get out much but really enjoy talking about being out...

Thanks for posting this. Read the book a couple years ago. Good read like most of his other stuff. This gave me something to watch as I sat around this morning sharpening my pons and tools and trying to explain to my girlfriend why we do this crazy shit. to Kurtz and all those that paved the way for me. Happy holidays guys. Be safe out there. With or without your beacon.

what... you don't think pasty white man flesh is sexy? What if I at least wear boots?

Cool...pick one up and let us know how it works. I'll look for it on ebay in a couple of years.

I hear you dude...didn't mean to flame and I don't think I disagree with you in general. But this light as a feather, cheap rescue beacon doesn't exist as far as I know. I think many would take them if they worked...just like most of us carry avy beacons in the winter, shovels, probes, pons etc etc etc. But the ides that climbers need to mobilize to demand this new technology be invented and then used by everyone is IMO kind of naive. I am still curious though whats your beef with PMR's stand on this issue? Where is the need for all this that PMR is missing?

Who are you debating this point with? Did I ever say you shouldn't carry a beacon? Take the kitchen sink for all I care. But it's not any business of your's to tell me what to take. And no...I think I've made it pretty clear that I'm not a hardman out knocking on deaths door every weekend. The hardest route I may ever get up on Hood might be Cooper's Spur. The bodies usually fall onto the Elliot so no...not a lot of maggots up there. I've heard the argument about climbers back in the day scoffing at the new technology. This is a different scenario entirely. All of those things you mentioned were introduced to fix a specific problem and more importantly they worked. Some of the old timers didn't see a problem with the way they did it and decided not to accept it. What's the problem? Should we force anyone rock climbing to use a harness and make swami belts a misdemeanor? Should it be illegal for me to climb Hood without crampons? Should I not be allowed to free solo naked?

I'm not making the weight argument because as you say it's not a 1 oz beacon that would hold me back. It would be the fat in my ass and the lack of proper skill set that would hold me back. But you are well aware that climbers OBSESS over weight and it's not up to you or I to tell them what they should take with. As far as the cost...shit dude... I'm a dirtbag who can barely afford gas money to get to the closest crag let alone another $3-400 gadget that Salem tells me I have to take with. Can someone please explain to me what the problem is? Are more people dieing and getting lost up there than is being reported? Seriously...I don't get up to Hood often because I can't stand the crowds but is there a huge problem with SAR screwing up on Hood? What is the problem that we are trying to fix? Is there anyone on this board that was involved directly with the last two high profile SAR efforts where people died on Hood? Do you also feel that "something needs to be done"?

cascadeclimber, I agree with almost your entire post, except for this part. I take such things along with me and have noticed no detrimental experience on account of having them. What good parts of your experience are you giving away to the inanimate objects you carry in your pack or pocket? Those things take nothing, only what you give them. Does the high tech textile engineering of scholler detract from having just a wool jacket? What about the materials science and engineering going into ice tools or ski construction--surely those things don't detract from the experience of having all wood and steel equipment. In addition, the newest McMurdo PLB is 5 or 6oz. I realise weight can be an issue, but at 6oz I can swing it, personally. And there is no reason that the weight won't go lower over time. At what point would a 2oz PLB be too heavy? I suppose there will always be someone. btw thanks for your website--have enjoyed a lot Are you serious? I've known plenty of people that cut off extra pack straps and strip everything in or on their pack to shave an extra ounce. Climbers obsess about weight because as pointed out priorly, speed is safety and weight decreases speed. Dane- Frankly I find your idea that regulations are needed to help with body recoveries laughable. If I'm dead I'm dead. No need to come get me. I don't have your thousand yard stare from all the near death encounters you have been involved in so I guess I'm just not climbing hard enough and my opinion doesn't count as much as yours. I'll try harder in the future. I still don't see what the problem is that people are trying to solve and you didn't explain to me how any of these new regulations are going to save people's lives. With all the death you've had to deal with I would think that by this time you would be somewhat hardened to it and accept it as part of the sport. Great to educate people and I would never tell someone that they couldn't or shouldn't take whatever they feel they need to take to make their attempt a success. But it should be left up to the individual to make that decision not some bureaucrat or an op/ed cartoonist.

Please elaborate on this further. Why do you think that something needs to be done? I don't understand what the problem is that everyone is trying to solve. I can't understand why you, a long time serious climber by the sounds of it, with massive amounts of experience and probably more real firsthand mountain knowledge than most of the "wankers" on this board, (including me)would feel that the general public needs to get involved in regulating in ANY WAY the circus that we know as Mt. Hood? People aren't perishing up there on a daily basis. It looks to me that PMR does a pretty damn good job of getting those down that can be brought down. They know the mountain better than anyone. Why would we kick them out of the discussion because we disagree with their opinion? If the people that are going to be putting their ass on the line to drag us "wankers" back to Timberline are in opposition to this kind of thinking than I guess rather than running my mouth because I think I know better I might just step back for a second and analyze my own opinion. Not that PMR is infallible but I sure as hell know that I wouldn't want to work SAR on that "shit pile". I'm left shaking my head at the fact that someone who's been climbing as long as you have would advocate for more regulations to a sport that demands self sufficiency over nearly everything else. The more we push our limits the closer we get to a line that we cannot cross. I think the people involved in the most recent incident were skilled, prepared and capable of climbing the route. Things went bad and now we're left to armchair quarterback from the comfort of our computers. Most likely an MLU, cell/Sat phone, and all the regulations in the world wouldn't have brought them down the mountain alive. This is the game we play. It sucks bad when we lose. Unless your advocating outlawing the game then imposing regulations on how we choose to play it will only act as a handicap on Hood.