ClimbingPanther

yes! And it does make some sense, it just doesn't take everything into account and can't be the sole basis ["case closed"] for a stance on the subject.

Arch, some people may answer that differently at different times in their life. Case closed? Maybe, maybe not. Science, not witty quotes, will enlighten us on this. And yes, the seven deadly sins are nowhere to be found in such a list, but those three I mentioned were in fact on the very next line from Ezekiel.

I would support it. Based on the Bible. Don't ask for a reference.

EXACTLY Why is it so easy to change important rules like that anyway?

yup. kinda makes for an impasse, doesn't it? there is a solution...

Yeah, I'm with you on the initiative thing too. People don't have time to read and fully extrapolate all the consequences like legislators are elected to do. Like that stupid nuclear material transport initiative which, had it not been suspended, would have put out of business [or relocated out of state] the medical isotope research company here in the Tri-Cities.

I knew I should have just let that post die. This is kinda off topic now, but by stefan's definition of "judge" being "claim[ing] [insert moral issue here] is a sin," try this on for size: Ephesians 5:11 New American Standard Bible (NASB) Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation 11 Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; The whole issue of "judgment" and what it means can be the subject of lots of debate, which probably doesn't belong here. Suffice it to say that by claiming something is wrong based on the Bible's definitions of morality, you are not judging, rather you're informing someone else of God's previously-issued judgment.

I just can't stand the constant criticizm and hatredz leveld at me any more. Why can't you liberals stop being so mean to me??? I can only take so much verbal abuse!!! Wait... what verbal abuse? Off-topic a little, but... I get annoyed at all the lashing out that seems to happen on this board from both "sides." It's largely absent from this thread, and that's cool. We should all discuss things this maturely more often I'm learning stuff I wouldn't have if I had the wrong attitude, and I'm sure I'm not the only one

In the words of Charlie Brown, good grief! Maybe this does make logical sense, but you're first statement is not even true. The only "person" who is an ultimate source of morality and truth is God, but if by "judge" you mean reiterate God's morality, then the Bible makes no such prohibition against "judgment;" au contraire, we are commanded to do so.

I'd love to see the studies, 'cause I didn't think anyone has ever proved this yet. Just a theory some people would like to be true, I thought. And I guess the news just hasn't covered re-naming marriage well enough for me to be exposed to the concept. That's what discussions like this are all about though, right?

I was waiting for someone to say that... What do you think natural selection has to say about homosexuality?

Off White, I never have thought, at least from a Christian perspective, that racial and homosexual issues are equal philosophically. Ethnicity is an intrinsic trait, but homosexuality is an action/choice. Laws cannot be based on who you are, but on some level laws always govern what you do. You make a really interesting point about re-naming marriage in secular society. Definitely outside-the-box thinking.

minx, I sympathize a lot actually with your sentiment. I am pretty conflicted on how I where I ought to stand on issues like this. I have not forgotten that I am incredibly fortunate to even be alive while holding my beliefs, let alone be a perfectly equal member in society regardless of them. Many in history have not had this privilege. Laws will never conform to people's beliefs because you can't get that many people to agree on one thing, so there must be some latitude. The problem, as always, is where do you draw the line? But this isn't even the root of the matter. WHY do you draw the line? That's the heart of the issue. Why do we draw lines as to what's acceptable in society? There's tons of reasons, and different reasons go with different laws. As to homosexuality, ericb's post probably constitutes at least part of the reason for the majority of those who voted to ban same-sex marriage. Regardless of all that, I think in general Christians ought to be wary of legislating Christianity, and not just because legislating religion can and will backfire. The real problem with it is that "righteous" laws will not "save" America. That is not how Jesus taught to change the world.

I was trying to resize an image the other day and couldn't figure out how or if I could.

For those of you who may honestly want to understand the predominant Christian position on homosexuality and why we don't want it sanctioned in America, read a little about Sodom & Gomorrah. Wikipedia has a relatively concise but complete and fair article on it at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah [good references too] Worth noting is that homosexuality isn't by any stretch the only thing they were doing wrong. Their litany of sins included gluttony, pride, selfishness, and more. 49"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. 50"Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me Therefore I removed them when I saw it. So as you can see from the Christian's Bible itself, homosexuality wasn't the only or even explicitly the main reason God destroyed them, as some may have you believe. However, we believe God does judge and punish nations/cities/whatever when he sees fit. Considering America already sounds a lot like those other things mentioned (even the most liberal of folks could agree we're overfed and selfish and our current leadership doesn't seem geared toward helping the needy in the world), we don't want to see it become any more like Sodom & Gomorrah. However, I for one think Christians miss the boat when we focus so much on one issue. What about the others? Surely being overfed is much more of a problem than homosexuality, especially in the church itself! Shame on us. "Scripture taken from the NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE®, Copyright © 1960,1962,1963,1968,1971,1972,1973,1975,1977,1995 by The Lockman Foundation. Used by permission."

You are all blowing this way out of proportion. The east side is where the real mind-blowing records are being broken. Data for the Tri-Cities, taken at Pasco International Airport Get a load of this: Most rain in one week: A monstrous 0.45 in. Most rain in one day: A terrifying 0.20 in. Most days in a row with recordable rain: Un-freakin-believable 5 DAYS!!! 0.45 in. is approximately our monthly average for precip. and we got it in just 5 days! WOW!

I'd hate to fall on THIS thing!!! shoot, doesn't look so messed up when the image is small try: http://web.mit.edu/custer/www/rocking/cams/cams.body.html#introduction Seriously though, cool find with that website!

Whatever oly , that may be fine for you if you want a smooth computing experience with a fraction of the glitches of the average PC, but who wants that anyway?

Gary's right, the real world is often difficult to describe with equations, but everyone should know the basics which are important. There are a lot of concepts which can be put to good use if you never read a single climbing book. Like how large angles in an anchor's cordelette astronomically increases the force on the piece. Like when you fall, the force of your fall is (in theory) doubled on a piece above the belay because it's like a pulley. Average physics ignoramus Joe may think, "Hey, my rope won't let a force happen more than X kN, so I can fall all I want on this little nut!" However, it's impossible to make exact predictions because there are so many variables (friction in various places, rope stretch and age, static-ness of belay, weight of climbers, etc.).

Yeah, the master/slave thing is definitely the way to go. It will work; you'll not lose all your data. However, if I were you, since you're going to be wiping the whole thing anyway, I'd suggest somehow saving important files to someone else's HD (keep your new one in the box) first, wiping your old HD clean (not just a system restore or something), and installing XP fresh on it, sequentially installing programs/hardware one at a time to discover if/when it dramatically slows down. I REALLY doubt there's any problem with your HD. Maybe after every 5 programs/hardware, create a system restore point so you don't have to waste time reinstalling everything if uninstalling the problematic program/hardware doesn't help.

Well, so you did! I swear I looked TWICE for it! Unless you secret-edited it

Arch, you really took the "Subject" line to heart, eh? I would get fired for reading books at work if I read your whole reply now, but I'll take a look on my own time. I appreciate what I for now assume is a thoughtful response though!

This may need a new thread, but the real question in all of this moral wrangling is: Who or what defines "morality?" If it's individuals, then why condemn murderers (I doubt many ascribe to this)? If it's a societal convention (which I suspect many here believe) then it's all relative to your place in history and geography. If it is a (or THE ) supreme God then it's whatever he says and our opinions don't matter. It's simple and doesn't require much philosophy for those on either end of the spectrum, but I think it would be interesting to see some discussion on what people really mean when they say "morality."

That's not true!!! Don't beat yourself up like that. It's just that yours doesn't matter

REI does have a lot going for it, especially that they are the only remotely climbing-related shop in the Tri-Cities. It is sad that they're moving away from climbing in general though. However, it's a stupid, lame excuse that it's not profitable. It's only not profitable because they've neglected the real climber community and we rarely shop there for climbing supplies anymore, so even if they put stuff on the shelf it won't sell enough to justify stocking it. There's too many little guys who, with the advent of the internet, can and do compete very well. REI would really have to turn itself into a true Wal-Mart and start carrying everything imagineable at discount regular prices if they wanted to start selling climbing stuff as a profitable sector.