kevbone

"Well, on the SE Corner tree rap anchor discussion - I did change course and remove them and after we checked with Lisa Lantz, the WSP SW Resource Steward, the decision was made not to add more gravel to the tree base and so we didn't." I think the point is, you heard it from several local climbers on this subject and the only thing that changed your mind was the officials, not the climbers consensous.

Documenting your work is great, Joe, and a decade of clueless, petty squabbling is bad. I agree. Just not on this site. Cant you document it in some other way and give it to the state park in such a way as to I or other people dont see it on the web? Beacause if you dont, it truly shows its all about you. In other words, if you truly were selfless abou this, you would not tell anybody you were doing it. Facts: we agree, documenting is good. We agree, bad blood between climbers and rangers, bad. There has to be another way to keep the rangers in the loop without alerting the world as well? Idea: Could you post this stuff on the Beacon rock state web site? That way if someone wants to find out whats up they can access it through the state.

Wow, thats I feel about you Joe. No matter what is said or done, you twist it into why your right..... Again, Joe, as far as I can tell, no one is telling or asking you to stop helping/fixing anchors. We or I am just asking to stop posting and cataloging it on this web site. Its bad for Beacon.

Joe, if you want to catalog all you have done out there, strictly for the BRSP, what if I personally bought you a 3 ring binder with file separators and a shiny new pen. Then you could print off a copy for you constituents at the park. Would that work? I think you cataloging all you do out there is more for you than anyone else. I see your eye light up with pride every time a person comes up and thanks you for doing all this work; I have to grab a hold of you so you don’t float away being how big your head gets. You think I am being sarcastic, well im serious, please find another way to document your work. I can tell from knowing you and seeing you posts and your work with a computer that you are smart. Im sure you can find another way.

I was there yesterday, moving all the frickin wood from the front of the house. what a pain in 100 degree wheather.

Have I gone drill crazy out at Beacon? You know the answer to that. So bringing up other areas is way off the subject. "No, I didn't ask Olson about it" I think this says is all. You completed disregarded a 50 year tradition. Why? Just for access. Thats not up to you, if you dont like it, go climb something else. As far a thiefing, I was quoting someone else. That is the percetion I was talking about. You were percieved as a thief.

Joe, thats exactly the response I was expecting. You sound like your running for office. Personally I really don’t care about the bolt. I just don’t like the way you went about it. Did you ask the first accentionist? I know you didn’t. Because if you did, that would be your response to all the crap you have gotten. Your reasoning is “they should have done it right in the first place” Well as much as I agree with that, we cannot go around and change climbs just to satisfy our own insecurities. If that were the case, most of beacon would change by my own hand and drill. But that is not the case, we have some rules that most of us abide by. Messing with an established climb without asking permission from the FA, is one of them, and you know this. Yet you took it upon your self to be the judge and jury. Wrong! Joe, as you know I have been climbing at Beacon for ten years this month, without taking a break. There was never drama until about 2 and half years ago when you showed up, and it’s not really you showing up that is the drama. It’s the use of the internet. You really have stirred up the hornets nest. You and you alone have done this, and no 3 paragraph essay response will make me believe otherwise. As far as posting for the good of other agencies, bullshit you are posting to pet your ego. Just like you did when you brought all the stolen items you have taken from Beacon and dumped them on my garage floor. Are you going to return all the stolen goods you have taken and give back to the rightful owners? (you know who I’m talking about). Why did you replace BRAND NEW anchors with brand new anchors? To stroke your ego. If you don’t think your doing this for your own ego. Well I have news for you. Perception is reality!

Yeah, so?

Bill, Bill, Bill: missed you at the party! Of course he will reply, in fact im counting on it. But the reality is, this site, or anysite is bad for Beacon. Beacon was doing just fine before self appointed Beacon Stwerard Joe showed up. I have asked him in person, on personal email, and this site to stop posting every time does anything out there. Im just calling him out on his own words, he cleary states he would do what the concensous is. Ask Jim what he thinks about posting on the web about Beacon.

Joe, you openly state you would pull the bolt is that is the consensus of the climbers, well if you stand behind your words, then I ask you by your own standards to stop posting on this web site every time you do anything out at beacon. I have asked you openly along with other people to stop spraying and posting on CC.com about Beacon. And you have openly refused, well you state you would pull a bolt if that is the will of the people, I comend you for that attitude. Well, its time to live up to your own standards. Please stop posting on this web site, for this is the will of the locals (including Jim) who climb there regularly. You state you post only to document the work that has been done. I say BS. you could easyly document it on your own computer. Well, will you stop posting or not?

I was in Bishop, CA, in the pit on a WED night getting ready to head out for ptown the next day. Car packed except for the tent we were sleeping in. Went to bed around 10 or so. The camp sites were silent until about 10:45 or so when 2 cars pulled up and got set up with drinking, drums, guitars, singing, probably about 10 young kids. This went on for about 2 hours. The pit was full, tents all around within 10 feet of ours. I could hear other campers pissed and wisspering in there tent, trying to figure out what to do. So I finaly yelled at the top of my lungs " Shut the fuck up". Well that stired up the nest, all of a sudden, half of the group was "maybe we should be quiet" and the other have was "did some one just tell us to shut the fuck up, let go tent to tent and kick some ass". I could hear the campers in the tents next to our laughing quietly. The mood was broken, within the hour they were quiet and pissed off, I could still hear a couple looking to kill us, They could not figure out where it came from. So in the morning payback is a bitch. My partner and I got up around 5am or so, packed our tent and drove our car over to there tent and put the front of our car right on the door of there tent and layed on the horn for about 30 seconds and split for home.

Joe, how did the cleaning go on Reasonable Richard go? Did you end up adding anymore bolts or pitons?

It rated 10c and will take like a 7 inch piece.

How about $5 a week. A little bit of money is better than no money. Just to clean the bathrooms.

I have the second accent (from ground to summit) and i would have to say, its not easy to find the anchors and belay ledges, so you might want to go out climb it and learn from doing it. Ask around out there, someone will climb it with you. Good luck!

Thanks Joseph, I know its makes no sense to keep beating my head against the wall. But when I say 2 faced I mean, a while ago we (climbers and biologist) had a meeting in Stevenson, and the biologist said openly “I don’t want any persons within 300 feet of the nest”. It was then pointed out, openly, that the trail to the top is 200 feet from the nest, and we, by his own words need to close the entire rock, the biologist then proceeded to change the subject. I believe this is the 2 faced politics I am pointing out. You were not at this meeting to watch a Beacon Rock official ( I don’t remember his title) get pissed we even considered closing the whole rock, he proceeded to state how his wife climbs the trail 5 days a week for morning exercise. It is this kind of politics that has frustrated local climbers for a long time. That one meeting sparked a lot of distrust towards the parties in control of the rock. Once again, I know it makes no difference, just thought you might want to know where all the distrust comes from.

"No human involvement". Well thats a little hipocritical dont you think? Hundreds of thousands of hikers/podestrians climb the path to the top every year. A fellow climber rappelled into the nest one year (when it was on big ledge) and pulled out a coke can and a snickers bar rapper. Climbers do not use these items when climbing. Clearly human involvement. Close the entire rock! For the birds! I know this will never change out there. But once again, mostly our frustration comes from the 2 faced politics behind it all. Not at you Joe. Keep up the good work.

Killer dude, I did that a couple of years ago. Way fun.

Mark, Stewart placed a pin on rappell, so I guess it was not all gear! I did try to do anything out there, I respect to bolting all the climbable rock, I just took it as it came. I personaly dont think much of the gear out ther. I another thing, I stated the first month I showed up out there. I was only going to put up sport routes. You act like gear climbing is the only climbing. I disagree. That place is a sport climbing crag, with a few good placement hear and there. Im not the only one who put bolts where you MIGHT be able to throw in some crapy gear. I personaly have climbed 4 routes there onsight WITH bolts and did not clip any of them. So if your going to be strict, you should adress all the culprets.

Your right and I would never touch anyones routes. In the same respect I would hope no one would touch one of mine. I will end by saying this: I have learned a great deal about putting routes up in the last year and a half. I have learned you cant please everyone. As soon as know, if you add a bolt, someone out there wont like it and will bitch about it, and another group will praise you for it. I have ceased to try to please everyone, for this will never happen. I stand behind every bolt I have placed. And every route I have put up or been a part of. I you dont like it, go climb something else.

Mark, I did not grid bolt anything and you know it. As far as monopolizing. The rock is open access to anyone, in other words the other climbers in the area had all last year to come out and put a route up and they choose to go climbing instead of putting in a ton of hard labor cleaning and cleaning and cleaning so I and you can enjoy new climbs, I bolted them in how I see fit, being I am the first person to climb and clean it. Now that the crag is out in the public eye, (at least 20 to 25 new climbers went there in the last 2 weeks)Im getting feed back to some of the routes there. I would say 95% of the climbers think its was bolted great. Some of them walk up and shake my hand thanking me for the well bolted lines and just the hard work it must have been cleaning for a year. I let them know It was not just me who worked out there. And I dont take them to just my climbs, for all the climbs there are good. So In retrospect, Im getting the feeling that we (all who helped in anyway) did a bang up job out there. For this seems to be the consensus. As far as my area, Portland. I would and have never touched another persons route in anyway. As far as ethics: I think we can all agree you dont touch another persons route, right? Then whats the big deal! PS, I never said "Bold first accents are a waist of rock" I said when A route gets done with crazy runouts and is super bold with no pro ( mostly in the 70's and 80's) then never gets done again, then gets overgrown, this is a waist of rock.

Bill, your rad. Im heading out to Jimmycliff, if you up for it.

G-spotter, no one is forcing you to clip all the bolts, remember the bolts are place there for one reason, to keep you from decking. If you get hurt, you dont climb, end of story.

I agree it is an adventure climbing poorly protected routes, I personaly would never touch another persons route, even though I want to and have thought about it. I still think a bad bolting job is a waste of rock considering it might be a great climb with great moves, but it does not protect and the risk of falling and getting hurt so you cant climb anymore, makes it a shitty climb. And it gets overgrown and nobody climbs and it becomes wasted rock. This is the case with several climbs in my area. I believe it is the responsibility of the FA to think about other climbers who will follow in there footsteps and climb the route who might not be as good or dont have a topo or beta. Putting up routes is a big deal and carries a huge responsibility. Doing a shitty job is unsatifatory in my book. Its all about having fun and lying in a hospital beacause you took a bad fall on a poorly protected climb is not having fun. I have put up over a dozen climbs and the I like to think I think about the other climbers who will climb this route after I have left the area. I like to focus on the movement of the climb with out having to fret about falling into a ledge because I was to lazy to add pro. This of course is my opinion! And we all have our own reasons for climbing. I am aware that I dont have to climb the runout climb and chances are I wont. I still think it is a waste.

You want to change a X for and R? Nobody owns the rock, not you, not them, it would me best to try your damnest to get both to approve, but in the end its real up to you. If the FA did not do a resposible bolting job, Fuck em. As long as you are fucking with the route, you might as well do it right, no X, R, or PG 13 routes. Its just a waist of rock.