JosephH

Anyone up for one? Or YW if it's dry. Will want to move fairly fast on them if we do...

Keeping old anchors and bolts with any 'history' around them by placement or type has been done. But leaving more than one or two rusted SMC plated hangers or other entirely common junk around is just leaving trash - nothing historic about it. If the idea is anchors are only added, not replaced, regardless of the 'history' quality or content they represent then that's just f#cked up from my perspective. Bolting shouldn't be a one-way deal - they go in, but never come out. And also, it's about the rock and routes, not the metal.

"...don’t lead out more than 1/4 the belayed rope length." The world would be short a lot of good climbs if everyone follows all of Steve's advice to the letter...

There were a few accidents - what two years back - from folks doing exactly this sort of thing on CJ. I would have thought folks would have learned from that season...

6.5 ...and condition of the rope.

It seems to me that the persistent underlying themes of the scale of opium production, lack of infrastructure, and terrain-driven tribalism represent governance "anti-patterns", to borrow a phrase from the coding world. Providing 'Governance', such as it is (and ala Hamas), appears to be the Taliban's principal schtick as far as being tolerated is concerned. To what degree are we 'hunkered down' in Kabul, Kandahar, and a couple of outlying bases, and not competing on the 'governance' front? Have the PRTs been effective at all? If not, how should that charter be addressed? Overall, the entire effort still seems under-funded and under-manned by orders of magnitude and held hostage by the [continuing] legacy of BushCo's early 'domino-theory' priorities.

Should be a good run over the next week - you guys keep your wits about you up there this year...

By Saturday the Oregon side should be sporting some of the best ice it's seen in years I would suspect. Maybe even some of those epic long lines up by Weyth will be in.

Yeah, there is tons of natural pro. I was pretty much exclusively trad climbing while I was there and about half my pro was just slings. I was mainly climbing with a couple of locals who hadn't really seen much trad gear / climbing at that time and they loved all the natural placements. Hell, they'd laugh hysterically at about every placement they cleaned...

Good for you Bill. When I was there back in '92 Tonsai was completely wild with no development of any kind; can't imagine what it's like today and look forward to the pictures. I was there for about six weeks, but so fat I spent first three just swimming twice a day from Railay to the point between Tonsai and Ao nang. That and eating just rice soup/porridge until I lost enough weight and got some muscle tone back. I suspect that was also the last time there was a full trad rack in town as well. Have fun, you miserable wretch...

I used to live up in Francestown, NH for a couple of years - nice stuff all around. RC.com, NEIce.com, and NEClimbs.com should net you guys some partners and you can check out trad girl's NH index as well: http://www.tradgirl.com/areas/nh/

Joel Solomon up on the hill at the OHSU Hand Clinic. He wouldn't cut on me, saying I would have needed to come in at the time of my accident (I couldn't); the best he could offer was a joint replacement, but that it wouldn't hold up under climbing stresses. He could have gone poking around in there and I respect that he refused. FWIW, I found him by tracking down who the folks at the Oregon Symphony go to...

These are always interesting abstractions. It's clear no one cares how much of what type of ammo anyone buys - the only intent is to be able to trace ammo used to conduct a crime. As far as any requirement for people to turn in ammo, if the government wants it, it should be prepared to pay full replacement value for it or I'd vote against the legislation.

Steering left as you got higher is what it looked like at the time to me as well...

Good one Ivan. I've been so out of it all my fingertips are now peeling off as they've forgotten about climbing. That's the crack off of the left side LoLP I tried to free two years ago and was stymied by a bush in the top of the wide. I believe the last time I checked the piece I'd left was gone, but the bush was still there. Did you guys do it in?

Only the Phantom knows...

They were designed for aid, but are beefy enough for free climbing. I took a solid thirty-footer onto a #3 in Eldo back in the day so I'm good with them. I think a lot of it all has to do with how "into pro" you are as well. I happen to find every placement a creative gift and playtime - the more technical the better at times. For me trad climbing is a matter of three questions: can I see it; can I climb it, can I protect it. I love it when there is challenge and and 'art' in all three. And I just dig it when pro gets small, technical, and demanding to the point where modding gear or variously pre-slicing screamers can make the difference between a placement holding or not. I do certainly get that some folks can view the whole pro thing as tedious or a PITA; I'm just am oddly wired such that it all really fascinates me.

Skanky, loose rock, no problem - but I'm a complete coward when it comes to snow and ice. I have to go south or just buckle down and code...

Has winter closed in on Eldo, or do I need to bug out to RR after this weekend?

I wait for you to post...

Those that can't train spray... If I could walk away from my keyboard to train I'd love it. Well, that and I don't train. ------------------------------ Bill, So I'm not supposed to respond? Hell, as it was Mark got pissed when I was slow getting back up to his. As far as "I'm right", no - I have my perspective and views on the subject other people have theirs. When I'm misquoted, someone's putting words in my mouth, or arguing points which in the end all revolve around sanitizing a spectacular and challenging line, then I suppose it does look that way. From my perspective I seem to be up against "wasted rock", "best for the community", "remove the risk climbing", and "it's too dangerous" arguments - none of which I agree with. I have read folks posts and been entirely forthright and honest in my responses. I'm really a bit stunned that not a single person voiced any excitement, interest, or even curiosity in the line as a free climb. I guess in the end, I climb what I climb because it grabs and interests me, I don't climb for other people - if what a safety-obsessed mainstream does pushes folks' view of my climbing ever farther to the fringes that entirely fine with me. But then again, needing some sketch in our climbing is probably something Ivan and I have in common.

Even though McGowen states he has the first FFA. Yes, Bob was working on it for a couple of months and I'm pretty sure we inadvertantly got on it in-between their FA and FFA dates at the end of May. We never knew about them and they never knew about us. And whether that was indeed the case or not, walking down and onsighting it in '87, makes him a comet in my book. The next day we walked to the end of the trail and I got on the line above the arena. We were and are pretty much all about roofs so those naturally caught our eyes.

If we were talking about a panel or rock with no history I'd agree it's all just a matter of subjective opinion. However, that's not the case here, there is an objective history of travel over this particular section of stone and I (and from the sound of it, Ivan) would go do it again. Also, when I say 'death hazard' I don't mean it in a someone-may-die sort or way, I mean it in a someone-is-going-to-die way - the whole someone-may-die rock I view as more optional as in then don't get on it if you can't deal. I agree there is still room for a amount of conjecture, but people who have actually closely examined the panel and climbed over it are probably in a better position to judge what's what then the average person just reading about it. And I don't get on anything like that panel without studying it extremely well before, during, and after in advance of my second following over the same terrain. Fortnuately you're in a good stance to do just that from just immediately above it when doing the climb. In the absense of any clear and concrete indication to the contrary, I'm willing to bet a lead on it being as solid as it ever was. Normally, I don't think you're really all that elitist or anything, but the implications of this statement are a little over the top. So, if someone who wants to climb windsurfer sees someone up at the pipeline anchor trying to climb this traverse, and they aren't familiar enough to know that there's a loose flake up there and they should leave, then they only have half a brain? The elitist image that you may need to fight doesn't come from your desire to preserve the rock, or to preserve adventure...it comes from your ability to talk down to or about anyone who doesn't climb as much as you at Beacon, or doesn't have your experience level with those climbs, or style of climbing. Well, given you're quoting me, if they "were concerned about it" as I said, then they'd be stupid to walk up and climb there. If anyone walked up while I was on the route and I thought they were in any danger I'd let them know what was happening and ask them to move to say FFA or wait a bit until we're done. If they were either inconsiderate or stupid enough to just pretend like nothing was happening then I'd back off as I wouldn't want to attempt a climb like that around such folks - it would blow the whole energy of the attempt. And, yet again, given the history and opportunity it presents, I'd say that's a mindlessly inconsiderate perspective particularly when it involves such a spectacular chunk of free climbing... The traditional, ever-present, and very sensible option for climbers concerned with the value of their own lives in such situations is either don't leave the belay or retreat - you'll forgive me if I find your argument here, that one should just bulldoze onward at the expense of a fine free climb, a bit troubling. I didn't, I asked that he not to go back up on it if he felt he couldn't manage it without dumping the panel.

Ha, you have me dead to rights there; sorry, I just haven't seen it when it's been on display.

when i read this it makes me think you're climbing w/ a comet I was. His first climb at Beacon was walking down the trail, stopping, looking up at Stone Rodeo and onsight sending what in all likelyhood was the FFA.