JosephH

Fixed that for you. Again, you've clearly not spent time around Chicago politics - there are no liberals behind closed doors there, pragmatism is about as far left as anyone goes. And funny how Bush and McCain have been pushing for a SOFA that pulls our troops out when? There is no 'strategic plan' because a bunch of civilian ass clowns totally screwed the pooch on that front. Now, you might be able to come up with a good strategy for taking out the garbage in the wake of their administration - but a cogent, effective strategic plan for Iraq is going to be damn hard to come by. The 'strategic plan' we've been operating under to-date might as well have been written in Tehran by Ahmadinejad. Really the whole Iraq exercise has a lot in common with the Dot.com bust - a trillion dollars disappeared down a rat hole and the only thing that was accomplished with it was to teach a new generation that content should be free. Yeah, team! Similarly we've tossed a trillion dollars down a rathole in Iraq to perfect design and deployment of IEDs and various wireless trigger technologies and to enrich and empower Iran. Again, yeah, team!

If there was a strategic plan that wasn't based on neocon fantasy then I for one would love to hear it... Dude, they're talking about getting electricity on in a couple years. Give it some time. If they had a working strategic plan the electricity would have been on 3 1/2 years ago...

I have to beg to differ, I have an definite emotional attachment to any number of loose rocks out at Beacon. The high crux on Lost Warriors is over three flakes that have to be "set" before you use the lefthand one. Menopause has some loose blocks you wouldn't want to have come off and you wouldn't want to trundle either as they're the size of cars. Lots of routes are that way and you have to either be prepared to deal or not. The Valley alone is filled with big expanding flakes on numerous routes. And I have a particular emotional attachment to the Silver Crow panel, being the second climb I ever attempted at Beacon. That panel makes free climbing the route up to the base of Silver Crow possible - aid may be you're thing, but if 'other way' in 'one way or the other' is aid climbing then I'd say that would be damn shame over that particular stretch of rock - it is breathtaking free climbing from the Pipeline anchor over to the top, dead-center of the Arena. Would love to, but just can't pull it off at this point...

Yet again, the panel has been aided and free climbed at least a half dozen times as is. If you guys can't deal with it as it is you should move on rather than comfortizing it to suit your palate.

If there was a strategic plan that wasn't based on neocon fantasy then I for one would love to hear it...

I'd say this is just about where the posing and shittalking kicks in - given you seem to make it clear time and again you aren't interested in being one of those people...

The panel is loose, and has been aided and / or free climbed as is by McGown & partner, myself, and my partner Jim Tangen-Foster. Under absolutely no circumstances should it be deliberately "cleaned" by anyone. You have no idea what you're even talking about to even make such a comment. Anyone incapable of climbing through leaving it intact - be it aid or free - should leave the line to people who can...

From Obama's web site: ---------------------------------------------- A Responsible, Phased Withdrawal Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe we must be as careful getting out of Iraq as we were careless getting in. Immediately upon taking office, Obama will give his Secretary of Defense and military commanders a new mission in Iraq: ending the war. The removal of our troops will be responsible and phased, directed by military commanders on the ground and done in consultation with the Iraqi government. Military experts believe we can safely redeploy combat brigades from Iraq at a pace of 1 to 2 brigades a month that would remove them in 16 months. That would be the summer of 2010 – more than 7 years after the war began. Under the Obama-Biden plan, a residual force will remain in Iraq and in the region to conduct targeted counter-terrorism missions against al Qaeda in Iraq and to protect American diplomatic and civilian personnel. They will not build permanent bases in Iraq, but will continue efforts to train and support the Iraqi security forces as long as Iraqi leaders move toward political reconciliation and away from sectarianism.

It was far from obvious and being married to a 'biracial' Native American who has often been subjected to various insults both at home and abroad I'm more than a little sensitive about the issue. 'Discussing' race is one thing - Ann Coulter does it all the time - how it is discussed and in what context matters greatly.

Who knows, it could go free. That lower section we already freed was likely at least part of the A3 rating, can't say what the line proper might yield up...

Same to you whatever you're up to...

I wasn't misinterpreting you so much asking for clarification as the way you phrased your question to me it was hard to tell which you were suggesting. I would say that W is no Winston and where Winston was simply looking for a general who had what it took to deal with Rommel, W and company were explicitely shopping for senior command officers who were ready to relinquish their responisbilities and allow the military to be manipulated in support of a very specific political agenda - it has very much been of repeat of Vietnam in that respect. As far as Obama's agenda goes - the difference between McCain's plan and Obama's can be measured more in weeks than months. Republicans were on track with the current security agreement to bug out at the earliest possible date despite McCain's rhetoric to the contrary.

Aside from the fact this thread basically has a real bad odor about it, and the original 'question' significantly blows, the above isn't true - tribes set their own enrollment standards. And 'Race' is as much a matter of societies' and individuals' perceptions, stereotypes, and reactions to a person's appearance as any genetic measure. On that basis alone it's more than a little appropriate for Barack and Tiger to represent themselves as African-American. Try a little experiment and ask yourself if they'd have been a freemen or slaves in Charleston, SC on November 10,1808 - enough said on this rancid topic...

Since the hurricanes that ravaged Florida a few years back and especially since Katrina - most insurance companies now attempt to either deny claims outright or quickly send a way lowball check. I'm guessing 15-20% walk away after a denial, another 20-30% take the lowball check, and the rest squawk. Those that squawk then probably get offered slightly more, and they only settle for the full amount with those folks who get really belligerent with them and ride out their bullshit making clear they're not going away. Regardless how you stack it, they undoubtably save a ton of cash progressively shining folks on... That was our case when my wife was hit by an Allstate driver and my brother's experience in Virginia with hurricane damage to their home. We had to send back the checks and get relentlessly in their face. So, if an insurance company just sends you a check out of the blue after an accident, the best course of action is to immediately Fedex it back to them and put them on notice you expect to be fully compensated according to the terms of your policy. If they jack you around then let them know you are contacting your state's insurance commissioner's office. Stay resolute, on point, and in their face - this is definitely a 'squeaky wheel' sort of deal... P.S. Anyone who has a way of getting involved with USAA should jump at the chance.

Please, please be extra gentle with it as that panel really is the only way to free climb the line - if it goes I doubt it will go free again...

It's not obvious until you are actually looking down on it and it's at the level of your feet. You can see a portion of it just above the purple traverse line in the technicolor pict, down and right from the yellow '126'...

Missed this first time through. Once you are established on the headwall, with the #9 hex in, you can literally just walk left to under 'Silver Crow'. I remember being amazed that it was like a 5.2 exercise where you could hang out all day in a free rest stance directly under 'Silver Crow'. It doesn't look anything like that from the ground or even when you're first approaching getting up on the headwall, but that is what I recall. All the more reason to finally make another run at it some time next year myself. I still have the replacement #9 hex I bought for the repeat go and still haven't used. Yeah, I don't think Ivan would like it all much if he weren't in some sort of peril when he's out.

A little forthrightness and honesty around the process would have made the product a bit more palatable. As it is, the only 'poverty' was a arduous deficit of integrity in every single conversation and email about the project from the moment he approached me on the topic - exactly what others conveyed had transpired years before. Pardon me for not being at all pleased with my interactions with Mr. Olson to date...

Let alone when he was repeatedly shopping for FA information for it while denying the whole time that's what he was up to and being too busy to bother checking in with the BRSP to see if they might have any thoughts or preferences on the subject or anything to add in the way of new or changed info...

Sorry - the blue '134' should read '124' in the photo. I always just assumed 127 (Axe of Karma) was the next one left, but as you say it could be up above as well. Hard to say. I've always interpret things this way though again I could have it entirely wrong...

Yeah, we put a tricam under the block just off the start from the Pipline anchor and no other pro until the #9 hex at the orange mark in the pic, as nothing is solid through there. The loose panel is not unlike the one that had to be trundled to open up 'Menopause', but in this case I'd very much like the one up to the traverse on this line to stay intact. I think this could be a rare case where it might very well be easier and safer to free climb that section then to try and aid it. And I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure 'Silver Crow' is the line you were attempting and that 'Axe of Karma' one line further to the left. Ivan, in either case, and as usual - way to get after it and good going. Bill, every year I look at the direct 'Sword of Damocles' start and every year I decide it isn't worth even trying.

Erden, With regard to - ("fascism then vs. Islamic fascism/caliphate now") - I do mean it verbatim. The former term was from Serenity's question and the latter from the undercurrents of the Neocons and far-right's ceasely drumbeat for war in the ME - neither are mine. My point is that attempts (in many cases successful) to cast the 'war' in cultural terms as a 'clash of civilizations' are an exercise in political hyperbole and christian-right fearmongering rather than a credible strategic threat grounded in reality.

If the comparison you have in mind requires casting our 'war' in cultural as opposed to political terms (i.e. fascism then vs. Islamic fascism/caliphate now), then I don't think it is a valid one. With regard to the sacrifice required of the average citizen - that was entirely by design. Americans 'got' Afganistan in the wake of 9/11; Iraq was a longstanding neocon wetdream which the administration knew would never fly if the average citizen's life were impacted in any significant way. Ditto Reagan's 'spending war' with the Russians. Both were supported by serious voodoo economics on the surface and manipulations of the credit markets behind the scenes. Our current crisis has both to thank. It started with Reagan and Bush Sr. and was used by again this administration to provide financial cover for the Iraq war in such a way it guaranteed the current finincial disaster. The suggestion I floated here, and elsewhere, in the past for engaging our citizenry is that the President be authorized to deploy 20k troops and support personnel (no contractors allowed) to any two non-contiguous conflict zones for six months. If they want one more body or one more day the following has to happen: - President must formally declare war and have it approved by Congress with a 2/3s majority of both Houses. - The day that happens dividends cease, interest rates and wholesale prices freeze. - A 15% nation war VAT goes into effect - A no-exemption draft starts immediately for everyone ages 18-35 (it doesn't matter what they do, just that society is [uniformly] disrupted) And those wartime provisions stay in place until the President declares the war at an end and the Congress passes a resolution to that effect by a 2/3s majority of both Houses. Set presidential war powers up that way and we would enter into very few wars and those we did would be over damn fast. And if we were going to attack Iraq we should have done so with three times the force levels, cleaned up our mess and restored infrastructure services and oil production within two years, and left within three telling them we'd prefer to not see a Shiite repeat of Saddam. As it was, we went in with the explicit objective of moving on to Iran and tended to the reconstruction of Iraq with a 'good faith effort' which made the carpetbaggers of the Civil War Reconstruction look like good samaritans.

A new cost in warfare in the ME, is the fact the medivacs are more readily available. That, and today's mash units are better equipped and more effective. A lot of folks in really bad shape who, in previous conflicts, wouldn't have made it back home are now and so the size and costs of the casualty stream from the war in Iraq is much higher than worst case scenarios expected - not that the administration was going to do anything for the VA regardless. For an entirely elective war, and one in planning several years in advance, the administration did nothing whatsoever to ramp up the resources our soldiers needed once engaged and did everything in their power to slash at the resources they needed on their return. Hard to imagine an administration with a more generic and cavalierly disposable view of our men and women in uniform. As far as Obama being the new Carter, you clearly don't know much about Chicago or it's politics...

Emanuel's voting record...