JosephH

We obviously climb very different trad lines...

Pretty simple: more weight, more decisions, more responsibility for self, more risk. By an large, most people climb a sport a grade or two higher than trad because they can't think and control their emotions at the same time. Sport climbing dispenses with a majority of the weight, physical manipulations / time per protection point, and decision-making which together provides the bandwidth and relief necessary to control their emotions. The weight of being responsibie for your own safety - and confidently trusting yourself - is a significant emotional burden which alone accounts for most individuals grade differentials. But those differentials typically apply when sport vs. trad grades are equivalent. Donini isn't talking about that - he's say sport grades are typically soft compared to trad grades. That I can't speak to given I don't sport climb, but I do have my suspicions. Maybe someone here in PDX can contrast Ozone .10s /.11s with equivalent classic Beacon routes of the same grade. How do they stack up against each other?

It's actually not about necessity or looking good - both are a matter of feeling good. If you not feeling it, it ain't gonna happen.

Horsesh#t, it would have been nothing but a mild concussion if he'd been wearing his helmet, but no, he couldn't be bothered and thought it might clash with his mane.

As Bill said, choices you make have a lot of bearing on the necessity of a helmet. In general, when I see clutches of today's climbers out at the crag, wearing a helmet or not is usually down on the priority list of things that might benefit from a bit of attention, thought, and change.

I have two of each of these: Petzl Ecrin Roc for serious endeavors, Petzl Meteor III for casual ones.

Worldwide, how many of the people who are going to get dropped by their belayer this week will be wearing a helmet?

Where do payday loan shark joints and 500% interest fall in terms of criminality, [economic] violence, and virtuous society?

Are you friggin' nuts? You do all that?

Thou shalt march as the lemmings do and drop your partners like raindrops from the sky...

Ivan, when's your last day at school...?

Peter, those are each seperate shows between now and November - as far as I know Simon has never said they're doing a group show though I believe several folks will be at the Stonemasters show. See the tour's website for the details on the various upcoming Portland shows

There are no "they" and particularly no "they will never", and it isn't a "battle" - it's science and politics. If nothing else, the Peregrines will likely regain their natural range in the 2014-15 timeframe at which time the closure could probably be dropped or amended in various ways. Until then there is always the possibility they'll nest elsewhere and we'll know where; at that point the South face would open within days of such a verification. Every year is different, and whether we're talking opening early or dropping/amending the closure - nothing will happen unless climbers are actively engaged in the process. Want it closed until July 15th into perpetuity? The surest way to do that is simply do nothing and sit around whining and bitching about it. Me? It's not my deal. Whining is something you typically attempt to nip in the bud by the time a kid is eight - after that it's likely to turn into a life-long, victimal swan song.

Got my tickets!!! Denny, Robbins, Donnini, Largo, and Portland's own Dean Caldwell - not to be missed...

Some climbs you are going to get up with a helmet on or you are going to expend more energy to do different moves to accomodate one. The route I'm currently working on is an overhanging, A-frame flared chimney through a big roof; you start out too wide to chimney and at the top it narrows to nothing forcing you out of it. With a helmet on you have to exit it sooner (lower) and that takes consider energy to compensate for. Given the pitch up to and including the roof is R/X rated I wore a helmet the first few goes, but the moves out at the apex of the flared chimney at the lip of the roof is just not doable with a helmet by me. My partner manages, but I know he's churning considerable extra energy to do it. Maybe once the roof goes I'll consider it again; but since the climbing up to the roof is now at least doable I've made the call to abandon the helmet and it's very much the right call in my case. As climbers we have a small set of ironclad "You should always..." rules - wearing a helmet isn't one of them and never will be for me. But recent generations of climbers are different, they obsess about and overcompensate for many things, often the wrong ones. Better 'rules' to harp on for today's [social] climbers would be "STFU and belay" and "don't dog on trad gear"...

I always bring a helmet; I sometimes wear it.

I don't know, is that how you're raising your kid - to wail and whine relentlessly and do nothing about situations he doesn't like? That was probably Django's approach after the fire or Doc Watson's parents after their kid went blind...

No, actually I don't - I'm just a guy who doesn't like not being able to climb there. The difference is, instead of being an relentlessly whiny little bitch, I chose to try and do something about it. What did you ever do to get it open even one day it wouldn't otherwise be?

Before it opens we'll do a survey of the Peregrine nest and one of the loose rock load for anything that might threaten the railroad. If anything looks bad we'll probably do a pre-open work session to drop it in a controlled fashion. Will keep folks advised as the next couple of weeks unfold.

"Take!" gathers much more naturally in a clenched throat than "Dogging!". Try it - bug out your eyes a bit, press your tongue against the roof of your mouth, clench your throat and try saying each of them. "Dogging!" requires way to much involvement of the back of the tongue and throat. Besides "Take [me]!" is way more intimate between partners.

Kevin's always fixing things.

Safety check = climbing safely. Engage wit, do not piss on self.

How can you subject your children to the risks of climbing safely?

I do, and have always, fallen a lot. That' said, I know someone who fell five feet to where their body was under an overhang and the side of their head wasn't and they ended up in a nursing home for life. It's a choice, bad things happen; a helmet may help, it may not, depends. I would say the bigger danger in today's climbing world by far is getting dropped.

Back home we used 'yowsa' for all signalling of any kind.