JosephH

Yeah, it's closed and the rope is unfortunately all-to-visible from the boat launch so at this point it's just a matter of finding out what the deal was and working to insure it doesn't happen again.

No, I talked with him this morning and he said it wasn't his. I don't believe it was there a month ago. [Yes, it does.]

So... If anyone knows anything about an orange / red rope abandoned on the last rap down the west face I'd sure appreciate a pm or call or talk to Opdycke about it if you'd rather. Not really interested in who, but the details. Suffice to say this falls under the common sense category of 'just don't'.

Some discussion from a thread I did over on rc.com: Careful consideration when putting your balls on the line...

They are made by the same Korean company and are simply branded differently. These are reasonable, but anyone interested in ballnuts should set up a search on ebay for the superior Lowe/Byrne versions of which a couple are up now... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=280332692333

It does, but if you been at sea for awhile your body does get remarkably adept at compensating for the situation. I've done some shooting off the first ship I was on and it's surprising how fast the compensation kicks in. You just don't get the luxury of resting your weapon on a railing or any other part of the ship. But 80-100 feet off the fantail shouldn't have been a problem for any competent shot.

Navy Q + A here: http://uk.reuters.com/article/usTopNews/idUKTRE53B2IB20090412?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0 Says it was SEALs already attached to these ships (due to there stated mission) and that the USS Bainbridge was towing the lifeboat at the time on an 80-100ft towline - pretty much fish-in-a-barrel as TGT said...

As TGT commented over on ST it was probably more like a firing squad than anything resembling impressive shooting or coordination. Just radio-coordinated 3,2,1 fire - over in a heartbeat.

The Bush administration would have killed the captain and invaded Somolia with an insufficient number of troops after attempting to buyoff the warloads under the table to get the pirates to cease and desist. But off course, rather than a beach invasion against the pirate towns, W's forces would have invaded via Kenya with a lightning ground campaign which would have allowed the pirates ample time to escape across the Ethiopian border. We would then become bogged down in endless tracts of Somali slums fighting 13 year olds and taking heavy casualties relative to the mission objectives and scope. We would then withdraw, claim victory, send aid to Somali warlords, the pirates would return from Ethiopia and set sail again eventually kidnapping another American captian.

I doubt any SEAL resources were immediately availble in that area unless they were already attached to those ships which is possible given their mission. More likely though, they just used some of the Marines attached to the Navy vessels in the proximity of the lifeboat. It was an open lifeboat and that part of the ocean is usually quite calm; it wouldn't be a big deal to get the six best shots onboard to take up concealed position, go two-on-a-pirate inside of 75 yards or so, and then just pick your moment - pretty straightforward and clean I should think.

Ugh, sorry to hear that, is it just a cut or did you do any structural damage (hope not)...?

Well, hopefully your 'legacy' won't be as confused as their father...

Good, that's all settled - can we now move on to the oh so important matter of keeping this 'new' crag chalk-free as well...?

Bolts don't make climbing bad, indiscriminant people with indiscriminant bolts do... Coming from you I'd say that makes it a ringing endorsement for the place - sign me up the next time I'm down that way. It also sounds like you boys should consider watching ebay for some Crack 'N Ups and Loweballs.

You're the one who made the ludicrous "rediscovery" comment, and right on the heels of the equally ridiculous "cams and stoppers aren't manmade artifacts just like bolts". Just who's out of touch with reality here...?

Bill, did I miss something? Why do I suddenly feel like Geronimo on Columbus Day... anyone surprised by the fact that joseph is ignorant of what is happening in the larger world outside the backwater of beacon rock? Off hand, I'd say that: a) you didn't get the joke b) you were clipping bolts so long you failed to notice people have been trad climbing all along c) the percentage of climbers capable of being responsibile for their own safety on a rock dwindled to the point where the vast majority forgot it was even possible, let alone desirable d) 'adventure climbing' is no longer an oxymoron wielded by those seeking to move 'climbing' even further into the shadows or e) all of the above

Bill, the lack of distinction between gay, hetero, or interracial marriage is rooted in what I would call 'constitutional equality' where the operative phrase - updated from 1700's - would be "all people" (as opposed to "all men"); that constitutional and legal guarantees should not be apportioned to only some people based on some basic attribute of their existence someone else doesn't care for - being a woman, being black, or being gay in this case. If government is going to recognize a legal joining of two individuals, then no restrictions should be placed on such a joining. From my perspective all such restrictions are bigotry of one form or another - we either have equal rights in this country or we don't and last I checked, gays were people too. All the male/female business is strictly religious - gays don't procreate and if religious folks don't want gay people in their families then they should quit having them. EDIT: Don't ask, don't tell was a terrible idea - simply forced both gays and the military into a ridiculously untenable position - better to deal with it one way or the other out in the open. States rights in gay marriage is a lot like don't ask don't tell and this is another area where the gay vs. racial thing join - if you're going to let majorities in states apportion constitutional or legal guarantees of this order then you might just as well roll back to the days when states could sanction interracial marriage bans or outlaw being black as a 'free person' for that matter.

A) More rovian tactics of redefinition - complete bullshit on every level B) There are both atheistic and theistic existentialist C) Is a cultural and societal choice I and few I know subscribe to, but which afflicts religious people as badly as any other All in all a pretty jumbled and twisted grab bag of ideas you've got strung together there.

Any time you're worrying or wondering about a rope it's time to replace it. On the otherhand, if it's seen no, or only a few, lead falls, the sheath is intact, and you can't feel any problems when running your fingers firmly down the length of it, then I'd be happy to take it off your hands anywhere under about eight years old. But as Bill says skinny ropes (sub 10m) don't hold up very long and there are some sheath constructions which last longer than others. A Mammut 10.2 SuperSafe is about the ultimate rope as far as I'm concern and it's the only rope I use in the sub-11 category when I'm doing anything dicey or with sharp edges.

You're right, I have zero tolerance for racism, sexism, homophobia, and religious fundamentalism. In those cases I don't believe there is a 'third way' and I have no respect for the values associated with them or the people who hold those beliefs - I do not and will not acknowledge any legitimacy of another 'side' on such issues - quite the contrary, I consider them explicitly dangerous to our nation. You can choose to peacefully co-exist, accomodate, and entertain such bigotry and fundamentalism, I reject it out-of-hand.

Fixed, is the only way pins should be used in rock climbing outside of some rare aid exceptions and even those have been the focus of clean aid efforts for several decades. Pounding pins absolutely is part of the climbing experience, but removing them on anything but some alpine routes and the rare aid line shouldn't be. On non-alpine crags pins should only be used as fixed pro if they're going to be applied - we've been past the point of using pins as per-climb pro on non-alpine free routes for decades. There are non-alpine, free climbing, fixed placements where Lost Arrows and Bugaboos can apply, essentially none need angles. However, in solid Oregon basalt there is little point in fixing anything other than medium and long Lost Arrows, Bugaboos, and soft Euro spades - shorter pins won't stay fixed, knifeblades will corrode. Again, aid climbers have been striving to eliminate pins from their repetoire for decades and even in aid climbing pin racks are so small many argue any necessary should be fixed in that venue as well, but even there are inevitably used excessively, hence clean up efforts such as on Zodiac.

Having climbed at both Traprock and Diablo I'd disagree with your statement about the former and agree with the one about the latter. Hell, Beacon would be absolutely perfect with zero bolts from my perspective. But the clock isn't running backwards out there and what's done is done. If you can establish and maintain a bolt-free crag anywhere in Oregon given its rock quality then more power to you. Also, I have some concern relative to your comments on pins - if you meant it is alright to place and remove pins over the course of a climb or subsequent climbs of a route then I would strongly disagree. If you're going to hammer a pin, then use some skill and judgment - but permanently fix it.

How can a person be this blatantly bigoted and blind to it? There is nothing more to the issue than allowing gays to marry - nothing. All that 'much more' IS the bigotry. Following your pathetic line of logic would return us to the days when states could outlaw interracial marriage so as not to infringe on racists' 'right' to raise their kids with the correct 'upbringing' free of gov't imposed mind-control. This is exactly why religious fundamentalism - anywhere and of any kind - is so dangerous to human rights and free, democratic nations.

Bill, did I miss something? Why do I suddenly feel like Geronimo on Columbus Day...

1778 - 'free' [white] men get rights 1865 - blacks [in theory] get basic rights 1870 - minorities [in theory] get to vote 1920 - women get to vote 1965 to present - blacks fight for the rest of their equal rights 1967 - interracial marriage rights recognized 1969 to present - gays fight for equal rights Could it be a trend? Could it be our history? Could it be bigots are just afraid of our history because bigots of one stripe or another have attempted to block every one of these milestones in U.S. history.