JosephH

I appreciate you're being able to see what it is I do hold to. Not much different than being watching the old west slip away as the country headed into the 20th century. For me it's about what I'd guess it was like for an indian watching the Buffalo being slaughtered in a consumptive wave until they were all but gone. No point in fighting it, it's a lost cause; but that doesn't mean I'm getting onboard or start particpating in it. It's not my deal. I do climb without chalk, and I do sweat like a normal human. But the real truth is that 95% of chalk use is purely psychological, particularly on most all basalt and sandstone. I'll grant you on a lot of polished granite like you find in places like the Valley it has real merit, but for the average climber on any-crag-USA, the reliance on chalk is a joke. But most climbers start with chalk day one or shortly thereafter and have no idea what they are capable of climbing without it. Oh, and dosing - yeah, that on the otherhand is pretty much SOP. EDIT: Kimmo, oh don't worry about me - I'm not jaded, imprisoned, ruined, or anything else. I climb what I want to climb and am enormously happy to be able to. The only thing I carry from place to place is the desire to do groundup, onsight trad FAs. Come down, rope up, and see for yourself.

Well, back in bumfuck there some TR routes that command enough respect that folks have tried various means of pre-placing pro in them to lead them so they wouldn't have to step up to the TR.

K, Oh, hey, trust me, I understand you guys don't like the fact that folks on a via feratta are wearing a harness, clipping pre-placed protection, and climbing rocks - god knows it's a real leap of logic to sport climbing from that. Maybe going out the other end of the spectrum from "adventure climbing" we should call it "comfort climbing" - but climbing it is, at least if you use the definition of sport climbing as the criteria.

I'd say you're the thick one. The mental exercise is exactly equivalent with the difficulty rating and skill set is all that changes. Thin folks on sport climbs, fat folks on via feratta - vertical movement and clipping [close to their limits] - I fail to see the difference. And for most single pitch crags - clipping - how innane and pointless if "physical rock gymnastics" is what matters. Again, the horse is long dead and we've both been climbing about the same time and come away with entirely different experiences - nothing about what you're saying here do I even vaguely agree with.

Well, you have to take into account I'm a real throwback and have been anti-chalk, anti-bolt, anti-rating, and anti-guide all along. All of those contribute to what "is known" on lines. In fact the use and dependence on guidebooks has kept untold numbers of climbers from ever developing an eye and being able to directly map their capabilities to a line on sight. Chalk has always led to a climb-by-the-dot mentality - no shortage of Eldo locals BITD who wouldn't consider climbing anything without chalk on it and leaves nothing to the imagination relative to figuring out sequences. All in all it's entirely possible you and I climb for entirely differnet reasons.

No equivalency? Via ferratas are simply someone moving the slider up slightly on the "I'm-entitled-to-have-someone-make-it-so-I-can-get-vertical" console from sport climbing. Time will tell on the proliferation. If you really wanted a serious conversation around the realities of sport climbing you'd start with a guess of how new bolts (not retro- or re-) have gone in anually in the last five years and the next five years. I would be willing to bet that the total count of bolts sunk from 1949-79 get sunk in a month or two max these days.

Yes, trad. Same in Krabi, the only trad rack in the country at the time I suspect. Not really into the 'do as the Euros do' sort of thing, though I suspect the proliferation of via ferratas in this country has only just begun.

Folks weren't sport climbing on the West Coast in the 60's and 70s and I don't have a problem with bolts used judiciously - Eldo and the Gunks as perfect examples. I have a problem with rapaciously paving over every rock in the country with bolted sport lines, particularly given the resulting demographic, mentality, and "conformity" they perpetuate. And truth be told, my main objection back around '82 was the dogging, and that sport lines should have some rating distinction. But that's not news, and I have no problem being one of the last remaining climbers alive who feels that way. Also, I have zero interest in the popularity or other's perception of the lines I put up or do. I don't climb for other people and if a route of mine is never repeated and / or people don't care for it, that's fine with me. I agree the horse is long, long dead, I only posted here relative to how it got that way.

True enough. It must have been the horse The Impossible was riding to escape on. We know who murdered them, but up until now it was a mystery as to exactly how the horse died...

I'm not trying to be a better climber than anyone else, I'm just trying to be ballpark of the climber I used to be. To do that I need every day out I can get. Besides, at 57 and beat, I have what - possibly just this year to get that [endless] FA done before I have to give it up and then walk under it as undone anytime I'm out there.

Ah, yes, I have been over-compensating for not being able to climb as many days out at Beacon as I'd like so I decided to do something about it. Over the five years that's netted me close to three months of extra climbing out there.

You posted up on one of the other Beacon rants about being a 'has been' climber and something about shoulders. Did I misinterpret that and actually you're good to go and climbing at 100% - hey, fuckin' great for you if that's the case. Some of us are just old, beat up, and definitely have to compensate in some way for it.

Well, with 6k posts of spray it's sometimes hard to make out what you're talking about, if anything.

that explains alot... I does. It explains why I can still get up a lot of things younger climbers with less injuries don't. I wouldn't necessarily knock it now that you're getting older and gimp...

Yes

Olde happens - better to sit it out and not climb if you haven't been developing a high pain threshold and compensating technique.

Link Cams are built as well as any such a design can be and with the best materials available. The design delivers unique advantages, but along with those advantages comes limitations due to the current state of material science. The linkage tabs (that the axles go through) are thin and frail and there is just no way to change that without simply producing an even heavier product. Bottom line is, at the moment you pull a Link Cam (or any other piece) off your rack, you are staring at the reality of the full potential and limitations of the piece - place it accordingly. With Link Cams that means that any placement that will exert leveraging] sideways forces on the linkages, or one where the cam lobes of a rotating cam will encounter obstacles, should be avoided at all cost. There's likely nothing wrong with this Link Cam or the rc.com LST one - they just ended up being used in placements that played to their limitations rather than their advantages. If you aren't prepared to deal with the limitations of any given design along with the advantages, then you probably shouldn't have it on your rack.

The study was a comprehensive study of many past studies on significant nutritional difference between organic and non-organically grown food. As a horticulturist I feel pretty comfortable saying a competent farmer should be able to produce crops with exceptional and comparative nutritional content by either means (and that shouldn't be news to anyone). However, nutrional content is the least interesting or important aspect of why one might favor one approach or the other and the study explicitly did not cover health impacts of pesticides, long-term soil trends, local / regional / global environmental costs. All-in-all the statement "organic food is no better [nutritionally]" is irrelevant. The statement that "non-organic, pesticide-laden food grown with unsustainable practicess is worse for us in myriad ways" would be more accurate in summing up what was out-of-scope in this study.

As far as I know, the right to keep established climbs and trails clean is set policy - the issue here is the means. Clearly any mechanical cleaning is no problem. The use of herbicides is entirely another matter as is which ones, how, and where they are applied. I got into computers as a horticulturist attempting to automate greenhouses - I know a bit about plants, insecticides, and herbicides and can understand the SW Resource Steward's concern about their use in the park. Herbicides are not all equal in their efficacy, impact, or longevity. The general issue of transparency is mainly a token of cooperation as there is not really anything that goes on out there the BRSP is unaware of - soloing, getting high, NW face camps, bolting, snow shoveling moss, etc - none of it is any news to the BRSP staff. The climbing and partying stuff they really don't care about unless it accidentally ends up in a situation they have to deal with. Anything that alters the rock or habitat is a different matter - they are professionals who live and work there and they do care about the place. All in all, spray swaths of the stuff and it also won't be a secret for long and it almost always comes down to them simply shaking their heads and going, 'you should have just come and talked with us about it." But that doesn't mean we can't approach them and say we've run into a situation where mechanical means won't be adequate and we'd like to go chemical. I've already done that with regards to coming up with a strategy to permanently eliminate the massive vines from the West face routes left of Jensen's Ridge. Those vines are massive and for some stretches embedded into the cracks and aren't going to come out easily or without a combination of cutting, chemicals, and chiseling. We didn't get to the cleaning last winter, but the BRSP response was let's get together with Lisa (the Resource Steward) and talk about it which hopefully we'll do this coming winter when I hope those vines can be dealt with. If we have problem spots/areas we think need to be dealt with there is no reason for not going up and simply talking with them about it being a real problem. Particularly in light of the loss of the lines left of Jensen's Ridge. EDIT: Note I've had to explicitly ask the last several years that the climbers' trail NOT be weed-wacked for four feet on either side because it attracts tourists down the trail like a magnet when that's been done. Personally, I find clear-cutting by weed-wacking to be pretty high impact even if it's a mechanical means; the point being the BRSP staff is completely sympathetic with the idea of keeping trails (and climbs) clean and clear.

I forgot about that batch on the left side of the first pitch of Blownout - that is always a drag when you pull a rope down through it. But I did the Corner and FFA/Dods as well with no oak, didn't even see any. Kevin - I've got absolutely nothing to do with it beyond wanting to reclaim the climbs on the other side of Jensens Ridge from those massive oak vines and then getting them out from under the closure; neither of which is going to happen without WSP and BRSP cooperation on both counts. As far as the rules around the oak, I'm just relaying the WSP Resource / Habitat Management rules around plant life in the park in general, poison oak included. Again, my only concern is having WSP cooperation on reclaiming those West face climbs and not having that face close each year. But let me get this straight, you don't really care about the rules of States of Oregon and Washington - except you make a living off of the State of Oregon enforcing state laws and rules against others while your wife is a lawyer who makes her living off of the State of Washington and its laws. Oh, and you're great friends with Bryan, who is an environmental lawyer for the Oregon DEQ enforcing those rules. You know, you sure run your mouth off about being a Beacon bad boy and ignoring state laws and rules for a guy that lives off lording them over others every day - true, you don't wear a uniform and badge, but doesn't that make you just another dick? Andrew, shut the fuck up and get a life. Jesus, you two are are a real online 69 of whine, and christ if you are still synchronizing your post counts.

So, where is all this problematic oak at that I'm missing?

Maybe I'm just missing it, but where is the oak a problem out at Beacon other than having taken over the fine routes on the west side of Jensens Ridge? Poison Oak is a native species and protected throughout the park's habitat as such. But we have arrangments to mechanically work on it with them relative to established trails and routes. Spraying would be another matter all together, though I suspect targeted applications to specific problem vines on routes could be negotiated.

Come and listen to a story about a man named Jed A poor mountaineer, barely kept his family fed, Then one day he was shootin up the Corner, And up through the ledge came a cloud of stinging rude. Wasps that is, black and gold, Texas mean. And the next thing you know got a rash of poison oak, Kinfolk said "Jed move away from there" Said "Belle Center Rd. is the place you ought to be" So they loaded up the truck and moved to O-zo-nee. Clifs, that is. Sport routes, climbing stars. Well now its time to say good by to Jed and all his kin. And they would like to thank you folks fer kindly droppin in. You're all invited back a gain to this locality To have a heapin helpin of their hospitality Hillybilly that is. Set a spell, Take your shoes off. Y'all come back now, y'hear?

Yeah, don't under-estimate the heat. I managed hydration badly on saturday. Rope-soloed YW and then attempted to do the same on FFA/Dods which was totally casual until I hit the tree when I wilted hard all in the span of a minute - dehydrated, cramping, and mildly faint. Had to badly aid the crux and thank god Ivan, Dave, Geoff, and Kyle were on Big Ledge and were kind enough to undo my rope from the anchor below as they rappelled so I didn't have to re-climb the damn thing to clean the pitch. Not too bright on my part, the only good news was the tree makes a pretty nice chair these days if you face to the west and just sit down.

Worth calling out this tidbit from VegasTradGuy's RC.com Outdoor Retailer report: Don’t forget that if you want to get rid of your old rope, no matter who made it, send it back to Sterling at their rope recycling program (Sterling Rope Company, Inc. C/O: Rope Redemption Program 26 Morin StreetBiddeford, ME 04005-4413).