selkirk

So next time we all have issues with Homeland Security, does that mean we get to call "Terror" Tom Ridge?

Oh come on show her the pictures of Sketch with his gun. That should do it!

Not just snaffles, big meaty snaffles!

Sanity is very relative, and climber are neither.

no words seem fitting.

That's awful news. Did anyone know him?

Your reaching Dru, the only failure the article even pointed to was for locking carabiners where the locking sleeve fractured. There's still the potential, though much slimmer as now your working agains the strongest part of the biner and not just a thin piece of metal that will shear at relatively low loads.

From there site.... on the Abseil and Next Belay page First tie a Marchand (often referred to as Kleimheist) as memory serves it's in FOTH as a Klemheist.

Which is why I use a Reverso..... Figure 8's aren't the best device, but it's not inherently unsafe either. Just like every other piece of gear you have to know it's limitations and be willing to think a little.

The Belay-Master would certainly prevent the biner from cross loading in the standard belay and rappel settups. But it isn't really necessary, you just need to be aware of what's happening and ever now and again look down to make sure your biner isn't cross loaded. It's probably not something you need to be paranoid about but like everything else it's certainly worth double checking and/or having your partner check, and giving your belay settup a quick look every now and again to be sure everything is kosher. And your right Dru, it is a different failure mode specific to stiff stem belay devices. But again, if your careful, and vigilant it shouldn't be a problem. How long have these devices been around? And i've actually used a figure-8's small end as a sticht plate However..... I would agree, there are better devices out there.

Moral of the story: you need to be careful when your climbing, understand the gear your using and be vigilant at all times. To me it seems like these accidents have less to do with the specific device than with not being vigilant. The Alpine Bod type harness without a belay loop does take a little more attention to keep the locking biner from cross loading. Seems like i'm always futzing with it. And Snowbyrd, while I don't know of any accidents, I have managed to get my belay carabiner crossloaded while belaying with a number of devices (figure 8, sticht plate, and reverso). Part of the problem is that the pear shaped carabiners tend to slip out of normal position, and ende up cross loaded with the device and harness attachment point at opposite sides of the fat part at the top, instead of at opposite ends. Just have to be aware and fix it when it occurs.

Mushroom! Mushroom Snake! There are Snakes!

Got chased off a crack in L-worth by a little baby rattler. He decided the sunny pocket about 1/3 of the way would be a nice place to take nap!

Isn't Pokemon Japanese? That would make him a capitalist dog just like the rest of us!

Exactly, the Mounties/Mazamas/Boealps are just like every other group of climbers. There are incredibly talented climbers who climb in good form, and wankers who are a nuisance and danger to everyone. But since they're willing to train new climbers there are a larger number of newbies in their ranks making the same mistake everyone made as a newbie. It's just that their actions cause people to scorn the groups as a whole, when it all reality it should reflect less on the organization then on the individual. I've meet more than a few people i'll never climb with because I don't think their safe. That doesn't have any bearing on most of the people in the program. In all reality considering the number of climbs that the club puts on every year, I'm a little shocked there aren't more horror stories. The various branches run over 100 climbs per month during the climbing season with no more than 1 party on any given route. It's kind of amusing that it always seems to be the same 5 or 10 pictures dug up though for spray. Most of the partys climb in good form. And no i'm not saying that MOFA is the equiv. to much more advanced training, but just because they require some for of medical training for everyone and in general use MOFA as the standard doesn't mean it's not worthwhile. When i took it last year there were 2 Dr's voluntarily in the course because the focus is different. WFR is certainly more extensive, and i'm not familar with OEC. And a great deal of it would be redundant with EMT as well. But then again, I don't know if EMT training covers some of the steaksauce alpine stuff like the various forms of altitude sickness.

Have you taken the course Iain?

You might look into the Cragging course they offer. The Basic course is general covering rock, glacier, and alpine, as is the intermediate. The Crag course is all rock climbing and lead skills. Sounds like it might be a little more what your after. Mountaineers Crag Course You'd still need to take the First Aid portion if you want to graduate and climb with the club(I think, I know they'll waive it for Dr's), but if your just interested in the training on not necessarily club climbs than it's not necessary. I know there are other clubs in the area that teach climbing but don't know anything about them. Good luck in the mountains.

It all depends on what your looking for. They do take a lot of s**t on this site and others but if you notice it's only from people who have never been involved them. The Basic course is awfully stiff, so if your hot shot who already knows his way around rock and snow, you'll learn very little. It's taught to the level of people who have little or no experience climbing or scrambling at all. As such they go over everything and do it slowly. It also only teaches you how to be a good follower on a rope (i.e. not kill yourself or anyone else). The intermediate course is kind of the next step and introduces leading on rock, snow, and Ice. so down sides: Courses tend to be a ridgid due to size (slowly getting better IMHO though), they move at pace sufficient for an utter novice (with little or no backcountry experience), they accept just about everyone (so there will be some people who are just barely competent to follow in the basic course, and some just barely competent to lead in the intermediate course), definite bureacracy, they tend to travel in large groups (very large for the field trips, between 6 and 12 for basic glaciers, and between about 4 and 8 for basic rock, intermediate parties are smaller though), require a lot of auxiliary training (ie. first aid training, and navigation training) so here are the up sides: Extremely safety oriented (plays into party size as well. Every Mountie party is pretty much self sufficient if something goes wrong.) I know of very few incidents that resulted in very serious injury, and know of several where mountie parties become involved in succesful rescue operations at the scenes of accidents involving other groups, and at least 1 guided trip where the guide broke his leg high on Glacier peak.) The move slowly and give you pretty much all the information you need (although it's heavily weighted towards climbing as safely as possible. I know a number of people who are slowly turning into competent climbers who had never touched a rope or even scrambled a peak before last year and are now leading alpine rock routes) They'll accept just about anyone, and teach them to climb. They teach also teach quite a few other aspects of climbing, Aid, small party self rescue, water ice. They have climbs of varrying difficulty scheduled pretty much every weekend from may through sept. (So if you don't have a good size very dedicated group to go with this can be a good thing). So if your already an "expert" like most of the people ripping on them than there probably isn't much value there for you. But if your interested in learnig to climb in a safe and structured manner and if your willing to put up with bureacracy and quite slow pace with lots of focus on very fundamental techniques then it might be worth looking into. I know I've learned one hell of a lot through them, and my wife is now reasonably comfortable leading 5.6 rock, and climbing on glaciers/ice when before Jan 2003 she had never done anything more adventurous than the occasional weekend bacpacking trip with me. And as for as much crap as they take there are some pretty serious hardmen in the orginazation as well. If you want to climb hard you just have to do a little more work to seek them out.

Stoopid wankers! Don't they realize he's on the left coast now and we don't like him?

Yes but it's fizzy!

Scrolling through that too fast is making me nauseous!

I'd much rather hear you whine then spend another 4 years with GW in office!

Must agree with Iain, Smiffy ! Regardless of level there's good climbing to be had and lots of it!

hmmm, actually supposed to head up it next weekend. Well maybe the hot weather will help!