selkirk

Ok, who got some rock this weekend? Went down to Smith and pulled tuff for 3 days. Never made the Climbers Carnival so I can't comment. But repeated a few easy routes for some newbies along for the trip. But managed to get in Lycopodaphyto (Very good), and Rabbit Stew (Less good), the arete above Karate Crack (now 5.8 as a few holds have busted off, but very well bolted unlike the description on the book) and capped it off with Moonshine. That is a great pitch! woohooo! Nothing like a 3 day weekend at Smiffy! Lets here the epics and the whippers!

Thought we should move the helmet discussion elsewhere. Just a question... but does the type of climbing play into how severe the accident is? Around here it seems like we have lots and lots of single pitch, or ledgy multipitch stuff (Vantage, Icicle, Smith) so it seems likely that falls wouldn't be as large and hence not as traumatic. While Yosemite is known for Big Walls and Big Routes. Granted the biggest cause of needing a helmet is screwing up somewhere else. Would be interesting to do a quick survey of ANAM and see in just how many accidents the presence of absence of a helmet affected. If people are interested i'll do a count next week, as i'm off to smith, helmet in tow Alpine Choss, and Ice are a different matter as your dealing more with rock/ice fall than anything else and pretty much everyone seems to agree here. Good climbing everyone.

cascade blueberry's a ground plants, usually 6 to 8 inches tall, with a more, well blue-ish color, and often a little bigger than huckleberries. Only a few berries per plant but lots of plants. The red huckleberries i've only seen on the coast and in the lowlands. Typically long spindly bushs with low bery density, and low plant density. (Nice for the occasional one on the trail but to thin to pick seriously). Now the Blue Huckleberry (actually more purple usually) is the shit! Usually at higher elevation (3k-5k?) In a good year, lots of berries lots of plants, and OMFG do they make great margaritas! Just don't spill the juice anywhere, i've seen that stuff stain tile. Used to eat those things frozen by the bowl growing up! Got a quite good and unexpected haul of mixed blueberries, and huckleberries up at Yellow Aster Butte this time last year. Who needs water when there's berries! Now if you want a real treat track down some thimbleberries and eat a thimbleberry with a huckleberry inside..mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

and Wear a Helmet. It certainly doesn't protect you from bad decisions but does tend to improve how often you survive them.

Were you on the standard Concord route straight up from the notch or did you start a little lower? The tunnel route started below the notch, traversed up and south on a ledge then up the off width and a hand crack. Pro was no problem, a nice traversing finger crack early, and a cam placement below and left of the off width and the hand crack protected easily. Our rope gun tried going out on the face on top rope but had no luck and headed back into the same crack. There wasn't any obvious way around it. Second pitch traverses up and north, on slabs with an occasional face section, then walk through the tunnel, and up more slabs/face to the summit on easy ground (coming up from the south side).

So that's where CBS was. First you talk us into going then dissapear on us! I was a little curious while Snowbyrd was cursing my name halfway up Givlers! Started with a bolted friction slab down below, short traverse to the base of Givlers then up we went! Great rock, good weather and good company, followed by much good beer! After that headed to up the SEWS South Arete on monday with a few more beginning climbers and had a great day. Managed to leave my first piece of fixed gear on the route. I'll make a standing offer of a beer for anyone who can successfully booty the nut without a crowbar to pry open the crack. It's at the bottom of the second pitch Just before you head into the chimney, climbers right. Nasty little curved crack the sucked it out of sight. Should be about 1 inch of wire still showing. The tuesday went up the Tunnel route (?, cave route?) on the north face of Concord. Good rock and good climbing, save the vile slanting, flaring, bottoming off width half way up the first pitch. There's just nothing that compares to a desperate body jam and thrutch . After that a very nice route though and spectacular weather and great company the whole time!

Of course if you looking to learn to lead Trad, the Icicle has a lot of good areas and easy first trad leads. You might be able to con someone into setting up a top rope at Mountaineers dome or somewhere else where you can climb on top rope but practice placing pro as well. Granted i've only been to smith once but it didn't seem quite as convienent for learning to lead trad.

To really enjoy it they probably should, boots work but not as well, but tennis shoes won't cut it. They could borrow mine but my feet are a bit small (2 pairs sizes 8 1/2 and 9 I think).

Yeah, I think we start in Leavenworth at least. If it's too wet to climb then we head to Vantage. It should only cost us an hour or so. Vantage just isn't as well suited to what were after. If Dryad and the Brits can head up early and grab a spot at Eightmile that would be perfect. If were blessed i'm thinking R&D in the morning, then either top-roping or ground school stuff in the afternoon. Would the two brits be interested in toproping? I've got an extra harness and if someone can pick up 15 or 20 ft webbing I can rig another one.

Washington Pass area may be a bit much right now. I know SnowByrd's only been toproping so far and has only Rappeled once or twice. Besides i'm heading up there monday morning anyway Right now I think the plan should still be Leavenworth hoping to hit R&D, and/or Castle in the morning and maybe alittle single pitch in the afternoon. If the weather is nasty in the morning we'll head to Vantage, unless we have someone along who knows the Index. Right now were sitting at 3, If you want to join us Ken, that would be great, even out the rope teams or allow another newbie or 2 to come along. Weather Report right now for Saturday is Leavenworth: hi 75, 20% chance of showers Index: hi 65, partly sunny but should be dry Vantage: hi 75-80, mostly sunny, dry If your interested PM for final details.

Leading Sport is a good place to start Breezy, but the gear management skills don't really cross over a whole lot. If you can lead the pitch, avoid backclipping, and set up either a top rope or a rappel from the chains or bolts when you get there, that about covers what you can get for gear management experience out of sport. I would guess you could get most of the down pretty pat in a day or less. However it's still pretty valuable for learning to stay in the right "head space" For me it seems leading is only 1/2 physical and the other 1/2 is mental, being comfortable out on the sharp end of the rope, and being able to stay calm and work through whatever shows up. I think that's actually the hardest part to learn. I would say your best path is to start trying to lead some sport routes that you feel comfortable and confident that you can climb to start getting the right head-space down. At the same time though I'd say you should try and find someone to drag you up some trad climbs as well so you can start getting a feel for what good pro placements are, how to avoid rope drag, how to build gear anchors, manage the rope etc. In addition, make sure your comfortable rappeling and possibly lean to use some form of back up. This may be the Mountie in me showing but a weekend in Leavenworth doing more ground school stuff than actual climbing (gear management, anchor building, pro placement and cleaning, rapelling, knots and maybe some simple rescue stuff like escaping the belay) would almost certainly get you ready to follow trad and evaluate pro, after that a few days spend doing multipitch trad, followed by another couple of days doing mock leading while someone climbs the pitch next to you and evaluates your placements (top rope the pitch, but drage a rope and take a rack and protect it as if you were on lead. Then once your out of groundfall danger loosen up the toprope so that it's primarily a backup.) and then some easy leads well below what your capable of climbing, again with someone experienced following to evaluate your placements, anchor settup etc. All that said, it would probably be useful to pick up a book and do a little reading on pro placements, anchor building, knots, etc, etc. John Longs, "Climbing Anchors" is pretty good, and of course Freedom of the Hills seems to cover just about everything, but probably not in quite the depth that something more specific to rock would. Good Luck and Have Fun! Once you get out on the sharp end you may never want to go back!

If your in seattle I remember seing a guidebook at Feathered Friends that seemed pretty comprehensive. I don't know if they have any on sale but you may be able to make a copy of the shop one.

I hadn't planned on it. But if you just don't feel right without your nametag, I can bring a roll of tape, and maybe a sharpie for your t-shirt tags.

Works for me. Or if there's enough interest there's no reason not to utilize a few different areas. 1 or 2 at Castle Rock, 1 or 2 at GNS, etc, etc.. It's all good.

Would anyone be interested in putting together a Multi-pitch day for the Newbies this Saturday? (Weather permitting of course) I was thinking either easy alpine (Das Toof, or something similar) or possibly some the Index or Leavenworth moderate multipitch routes (Great Northern Slab, R&D, Saber, Midway?). I could certainly lead one rope. Any takers to either lead or follow?

More misinformation..... The mounties don't require any specific type of material for cordolettes, but do provide some info and numbers that they picked up somewhere regarding the performance of various materials (7mm perlon, 5.5 mm spectra, and 5.0 mm maxim tech chord). All the information really boils down to is the Perlon is the weakest at a straight pull, but is a more abrasion resistant, doesn't weaken under knots as much as the others, and doesn't weaken after repeated flexing as much. The Tech chord is initially the strongest but weakens more than the perlon after knotting, and is the weakens the most after repeated flexing, while the spectra is somewhere in the middle.... after that it's everyone's personal decision. It seems like most people choose the spectra.... i've actually gone to a webolette anyway, seems much less bulky and more than sufficiently strong. cheers!

I'm saying that yes you have to place a certain amount of faith in others. And you always have the option to back out if it isn't safe, or again, talk to the climb leader directly and ask him those questions, or get the opinions from other people who've climbed with him. Also it's not like were talking about climbing Liberty Ridge or doing a Pickets Enchainment. Were talking the Tooth, the Brothers, Whitehorce, the DC on Rainer. Most of the climbs are technically very easy to moderate, with pretty much all basic rock climbs at 5.4, with maybe the ocassional 5.5 move. These are not high end extremely difficult climbs. At the intermediate level you should be getting to know the climb leaders even better, the onus is on you to make it safe. The climb provides a framework and says these people have some basic qualifications and a reasonable amount of experience. You want more info then it's you should go get. Besides, do you request a complete climbing resume from everyone you climb with? If you want a no thought cattle like climbing experience you should go hook up with RMI. It's a club...... the purpose is for you to meet other people to climb, not for someone else to drag your ass up the mountain. You need to be actively involved evaluating your climbing partners, the climb leader, the conditions and being an "active" participant. If you don't want to climb with someone who's experience you don't completely know, then here's the revelation......don't. The club doesn't force you to, the climb leaders don't force you to. On the other hand, it opens up a lot of opportunities to climb with a wide variety of people, with climbs nearly ever weekend. If you see one that you like, with a climb leader you trust then go.... if not, find another leader...

Because a trip leader doesn't get paid squat he's a volunteer. However to become a climb leader you have to submit a climbing resume (as well as references I think) to the climbing commitee who makes the decision on whether or not your fit to lead climbs. But again, word of mouth gets around pretty quick. I've come in contact or close climbing budies have with probably 80-90% of the people who lead a lot of climbs for the club and i've only been in the mounties for 2 years. However this is something i've seen come up on the mountie bulletin board a couple of times as well.

You had Bigfoot's baby? Congratulations!

That has absolutely nothing to do with chilli and . Your completely off base!

Mounties cover the same info, though yes there are some actual experts. For the vertical rescue techniques trip in addition to 1 instructor (someone who's been climbing at the intermediate level for at least 2 or so years) for every 3 or 4 students there is typically at least one Seattle Mountain Rescue individual to every group or every other group. Learned one hell of a lot from them. And yes there is a bretty basic "exam" to get into the intermediate class.... Belaying, rapelling, z-pulley settup, etc. Pretty much all the information you should have learned as a basic. Am I an expert? Hell no, but I learn fast, I'm one of those poor engi-nerd types and a bit of a gear-head to boot. As for climbing resumes, I know the mounties have kicked the idea around, but it's typically shot down as it's one more burden on the already overworked volunteers, after all it's a club not a guiding service. Typically though through word of mouth you can figure out who's worth climbing with and who to avoid. And Dru's right, you do learn to think for yourself. If one of the instructors doesn't know something then typically they go ask someone more experienced and get it figured out. In my experience everyone ends up learning more from this process than from just getting it right the first time anyway. That's the purpose of the field trips as opposed to just taking everyone to the Tooth and saying climb. Yes, to some degree there are ego's running around saying my way is the only way, but 90% or better of the instructors and climbers i've learned from will tell you "Well, this is the Mountie party line, so it's what you need to be able to do on your basic climbs.... but there are also other good ways to do things...." I've really come across very few of the dogmatic rigid people in the program. Mostly lots of people who have been climbing from 2 to 40 years, enjoy it, enjoy teaching climbing. And I have yet to run across an instructor who is completely clueless, if they're that bad they don't graduate the basic course, or pass the intermediate review. (and yes it does happen, though not very often.)

In general the field trips are run by very experience climbers (I've been learning from guys climbing since before I was born) while your "experts" are teaching real basic stuff. i.e. How do you belay. How do you tie a prusik, how do you start a rappell. A lot of it's stuff you could teach yourself in all reality, and the "experts" you keep referring to are really just making sure your doing it properly and double checking everything. The basic classes are just that basic. How long did it take you to learn to tie into a rope and belay someone with an ATC I'd bet all of 10 minutes, and you could probably have taught in 30? The basic students aren't being taught to evaluate or build anchors beyond clove hitching into a pre-built one or wrapping a sling around a tree, no placing pro (only cleaning), almost no actual rock climbing technique. Mostly it's just lots of supervised practice of fundamental techniques.

coming from the

has anyone ever seen the lead summit register on top of Glacier Peak put there by the Mazama's. Is that standard? that had to hump that thing up.

One thing to watch is that that system (pulley wheel and biner) won't tend a prusik, so if your pulley settup is backed up directly to the anchor is could be a problem.