Chad_A

What's the latest scoop? Where we meeting at?

Not much to add, but will say that when it's time to retire your old ones, the new BD design is worth paying the money for. The more agressive tooth design really does help them start easier; the only downside is that there's a tad more resistance when turning them all the way in, but I don't mind that. HTH-

I'll take a look at my schedule and let you know. Might be kinda tough- I'm working a really long day out at St. Helens on Monday.

we were in an f'n hurry and decided on this climb last minute!

Thanks- same back to ya As far as the ratings go, that's always tough for me to nail down. What are your thoughts, CC? Here's my take- just as CC says, they're both considerably tougher than they look from below. That said, I'd guess that the first one was 4+, second one solid 4. Both are relatively short lived, but the ice is funky.

That'd be correct, CC. Thanks for posting the pics! Yes, we did stretch things out; we felt comfortable with it. Nice to be on ice this early, huh?

Here's some pics to add; not much of the route, unfortunately!

Fuckin' good for you guys. Nice way to get after it early-season style. Never a bad decision to call it in deteriorating weather. Thanks for the report; I'm sure someone around here will be wanting to go check things out because of it. Cheers, Chad

Yet another vote for the Icon. Throw a few lithium AAs in it, and it'll blaze you a path for whatever you'd want to do with it.

BTW, as far as integration, that's a good question. The people that I know that integrate it with climbing either substitute crossfit for climbing for the day, or make sure they go climbing before they waste themselves with a crossfit workout.

I've been thinking about this more and more lately, and it's lead me to take crossfit and put it on the backburner (or to do it as a backup when I don't have time to get to the gym or climb outside, or crappy weather like today). But there's a personal reason behind this; I'll get to that later. Here's a great email to MtnAthlete (GymJones style facility in Jackson, WY) from Kelly Cordes. You can click here http://mtnathlete.com/id163.html to read it, or: I have a certain climbing partner of mine that I've discussed this topic with lately; he has a reasonably extensive history with "crossfitting"; some of the workouts he would do on a day to day basis would destroy an average person completely for days. But what he's found is that once getting out and climbing, and laying off the crossfit some has him climbing harder than he ever had before. In short (and to paraphrase him) he found that taking the time he had split between climbing and doing crossfit led to much less gains than taking all of the time and putting it into climbing. I'm sure one could argue that the crossfit base that he had built led to the climbing gains, later. The impression that I get from MtnAthlete and Gym Jones is that gym training will get you ~65-70% there and that the sport specific exercises such as climbing will train the neuropathways to make the strength applicable...though while reading through the Gym Jones topics, it seems as though his thoughts on certain topics are still evolving. Read this post for instance. http://www.gymjones.com/knowledge.php?id=44&GymJonesSess=379dd5f0ff03504f69e7c5d8838327d0 As for myself, it varies wildly due to the new puppy and my work schedule, but I aim for two or three distance days (hiking with heavy pack is ideal, bike riding is substitute as it has more muscle recruitment than running), and a couple of climbing related workouts a week (drytooling, tool hangs, bouldering, a day at Beacon, crossfit workout utilizing climbing specific movements, whatever). Left with a short amount of time, I'll try to do something as climbing specific as possible. Twight once emailed me back after I'd asked him about ice climbing technique. To paraphrase him, "strength goes for a while, efficiency goes all day". In a pinch that's why I aim for sport specific exercises. The frustrating part of all of this is that I have friends who have time to just get out and "do it". They work in the field, and it gives them all the sport specific exercise they need. They are FIT....and they don't need to be as anal retentive as I am about this crap. Sorry about the long winded post! Cheers, Chad

Mainly the packs (in the past) and the fact that their hardshell clothing fits like garbage bags.

They've admittedly seemed a bit behind the times as far as some of the clothing and packs I've seen them produce, but they appear to be catching up. The Phantom 32 bag that I have is stellar, and well made (light AND warm for the rating) and their new packs look really cool. I stopped into The Mountain Shop yesterday and checked out the Direttisma pack and it has some really nice features.

Nice TR Now, go get your rock climbing shoes and go craggin'...and stay away from that choss pile until the snow comes back Man, I can't believe how ugly that thing gets in summer...

Nice job, excellent pics! Way to get back after it, dude.

I see where you're coming from; he was quite the marvel. What's incredible to me (and what in IMHO was the true marvel) was his lead head and technique. The pictures in Winter Dance of him leading some of those climbs give me the goosebumps.

I was thinking about Bob's post, my own theories, and how my numbers probably don't mean much for directly predicting what kind of performance I would have on ice (or any other medium, as far as that goes); then, while surfing, I ran across this which I hadn't seen before on the Gym Jones site, written by MFT...it seems to touch a bit on this subject. "Why is such specificity and volume necessary? If mere fitness were the dominant contributor to success in a sport then the fittest would also be the best. But over and over I have seen incredibly fit athletes – by all measures and testing – lose to less fit athletes who have better technical (neurological) skills. It happens in climbing all of the time. It happens in jiu-jitsu. It surely happens running, cycling and Nordic skiing. Great technique differentiates athletes at the highest level; most top tier athletes share similar degrees of fitness. This being the case, technical training must take precedent, which begs the questions, how much conditioning is appropriate to one’s sport? How strong is strong enough? How transferable is one’s “artificial” training? If the answer to the latter is “not very,” meaning significant re-education is required then sport-specific training is preferable because the brain and central nervous system must continually learn and refine specific motor skills. Achieving fitness at the expense of skill is a waste of time and resources so using “cross-training” as the primary means of improving sport performance is a dead end. That said it’s a fine approach to basic conditioning, and a useful supplement, or diversion in the off-season for active athletes. Of course, one can improve endurance performance by, for example, increasing strength and muscle contractility but this is a single characteristic of endurance fitness and speed, and like anaerobic metabolism, finite. It’s easy to pick a particular aspect of the whole and make it one’s shtick. And it’s a trap. I’ve fallen into it, as have others: we have ignored the diverse characteristics of specific fitness to our detriment."

Good points mentioned... I've heard from multiple sources of a certain high-profile ice climber that can only do one or two pullups, but can climb WI6 just because he has tremendous grip strength. I'd guess that most of it comes down to experience, technique and efficiency.

Oops- reread this- one of them used Nomics. Here's mine from right after work on new style Cobras with griprest pommels and Black Diamond Drytool Gloves. 1. 6' even. 162 lbs. 2. 2 min 2 seconds 3. 9 pullups 4. WI5 crux pitch of The Sorcerer (The Ghost, Canada)

Interesting thread- I'll give this a go when I get home and see how I do off the couch. It's time to start training for ice, anyway cbcbd and Hendershot- with what kind of tools were you doing your pullups and timed hangs?

Right on! I miss The Tick...

Awesome comparisons! I'm jealous that you have a family that has a history in mountaineering. My family looks at me like I have a third eye in my forehead when I speak some of the trips I've done.

Yeah, we saw that the sign had been knocked over when we were there earlier this week. Bright move by somebody.

It's certainly on the list- I've had so many people refer to it as one of the best climbs in the park, that I feel like I have to go back and do it! Dan- Glad you liked the pics-I'll certainly relay that on to her

Very cool; I'd like to hear about that one sometime