shapp

Here is my $0.02 Let me preface, I do environmental consulting and work a lot with agencies and interest groups on a host of issues dealing with fish and habitat management. I have not ever worked with Alps, but I believe they will likely not give up their hard line. They likely are thinking of the slippery slope - that if they let one route and trail in then how do you draw the line in the future? Personally I think the route should stay for the reasons mentioned above. 1, 5 or 10 small trails like the one going to IB do a fraction of the damage that the mere existence of the road into that are has on the riparian and riverine enviornment of the watershed. I wonder how many of the Alps folks drive SUVs to their most favorite trailhead and live in a four bedroom house when there is only 2 of them that live there? Nearly all environmental groups and agencies I have been involved with are hipocritical to a large degree in some respect or another. However, this is not to say that we don't need them. Environmental groups with all of their hipocracy and hard lines are the only thing that keeps the bush administration from logging, drilling, paving and raping every last inch of ground we have. That is why they have to go to other countries to do it. Sorry for the rant. Mattp, if there comes a time that there is a need for a biologist to assess impacts, especially regarding the Darrington area, I will work pro-bono night and day to make sure access and routes are preserved there. Email me or PM if there is a need.

Yeah, We did the hike into mudsprings canyon. It was pretty easy for the first 2 hours. Once you get into the narrow canyon past the pools, which you see above it is much more difficult. I would definitely give it 2.5 to 3 hours if you have't been in there and you are going for chuckwalla. We didn't do the climb cause we had to catch a flight that evening. We didn't plan on climbing that day and didn't bring any gear. We wanted to checkit for next time and hit the pools for some diving. On Johny Vegas: I think the last 30 ft or so of the second pitch is defenitely not 5.6 but the rest of the route is pretty easy and the loose holds are mostly gone. I did not encounter any holds that I felt were loose. The pro is very good. However I went tooo high on the 3rd pitch following the crack before I pulled around the bulge to the left and missed the belay anchors by about 20 or 30 feet, but there was a nice crack up a little farther and I just set up a natural anchor. I think the climb is super worthy, but you should be a comfortable 5.8 leader or else you will have a little but pucker on the second pitch. Also the gear is a little bit thin on the second pitch crux, but aint too bad. Thats my take on it.

Went to Red Rocks last month. Did Johny Vegas among other things and would like to suggest bumping the route up to 5.6+. Also hiked into mud springs canyon to scope the approach to Chuckawalla and found some good pools to huck into. The flowers were also out.

Dude you might as well learn to cam hook cause there aint no point doing it any other way. Cam hooks are here to stay and if you are going to aid climb you should learn to use them first and save yourself a lot of time. Alex, I do not understand what the hell you are talking about. I never had any ground fall potential. My rack recommendation of two sets of stopers, some small TCUs and a 1, 1.5 and 2 inch friend are plenty of gear. Also I will say that you shouldn't be doing aiding unless you are already a compitent free climber that can place bomber gear. Hell, I'll even go with you and belay. Send me a pm.

Listen to Jim, It is defenitely an adventure area. The Menageria aint smith and it aint flagstone

I don't mean to spray TimL, but I soloed City Park with cam hooks. I think I placed about 10 peices for pro. I have leeper hooks, maybe you have the Pika suckass cam hooks. I didn't usue or see a bolt at the bottom. I set a few pieces in the crack at the bottom right of the boulder and freed up the bolt ladder, tied off two of the bolts to back up my anchor at the bottom and started camming hooking like a mofo. It took me about half an our to do the route. I basically used the cam hooks and crack jummared texas style. Stand up and place the hook attached to my harness. Site down. Move next hook up attached to aiders and stand up. On city park this could also be done with one or two small TCUs at the end of each daisy instead of the cam hooks.

If you are new to aid you better take more than 2 sets of nuts, probably a few small TCUs and 1 each of a 1, 1.5, and 2 inch cam. With cam hooks you should be able to cruz this thing in less than an hour for your very first time. When you get used to cam hooks you could totaly do it with two sets of nuts. If you don't use cam hooks and haven't really aided you better have a patient belayer.

http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=11&n=5019539&e=446097&s=50&size=l&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25 Here is a link to Duns Bluff. I would advise having a high clearance vehicle to get to there from the Moss Springs trail head. Park on the dirt road that is to the est of the cliff. Hike straight for the small wetland pond, cross the wetland/pond on the south and head up through the small rise then down to the edge of the cliff. This should take less than 10 minutes. Set and anchor and rapp off the short cliff. The main cliff is to the south and holds several 2 to 3 pitch routes. Good cracks. On the shorter cliff where you rap is an excellent hand crack about 50-ft tall. There are no anchors on the wall that I know off, but I would not discount the possibility. Also good grouse hunting territory!

One more not on the House route, I think it is up the scratch creek drainage on a wall that faces northeast and tops out on traverse ridge. I remember the roue being called something like the polish route or some other country around there cause House did some climbs with these guys like a year our two earlier. Hell I can't remember. All I know is you can see the wall from the right angle when you are in enterprise and when you are diving up Hurricane creek before you get into the canyon, but the approach looks fairly difficult. I would say in the range of the approach to squire creek wall out by Darrington, maybe longer or the approach to Hozameen.

Wanky Spanky, Bill is smoking cranky. There is rock in the Elkhorns, but it is mostly no good. There are a few fun routes, but not worthe the drive from far away. Best there in the winter for skiing, it aint no climbing destination, but if you are set on it climb the coulier on the NW side of lees peack (5.5 or 5.6, 2-3 pitches) there is some short routes up above angel basin, hike up and look around. Also to the left of the coulier on Lees are a few mostly natural lines. I have heard tell of some hard mixed routes on the south side of Lakes lookout, but never been on them. There is some multipitch loosish shizzle up on some walls at the head of dutch flat (look it up on the Anthony Lakes quad and hike in there the best way you can, it is southwest of Anthony Lakes and the Antone Creek drainage. It aint that good though, but may be some of the loose holds are gone now, it was several years ago when I was there last. We climbed a dirty hand crack to a ledge, up a mostly bolted pitch and then another pitch to the tope. The next crag over had a bunch of cracks, looked good for aid. This wall is the first wall to the South west of Van Patten Butte and the wall faces southeast. The wall we did the climbing on was next wall to the south west of the aid wall. This link may help if it works. If you want to poach some shizzle not, look up dunns bluff which faces east and overlooks the Minam/little minam drainage and is north of the moss springs trailhead area. Look it up on a topo. THe bush wack is less than 15 minutes to the top of the wall. There are some sweet hand cracks that have not been poached yet I bet. I did a couple routes there about 6 years ago. Also steve house and Mark H? I am not sure how all other than House was involved but they put up a several pitch 5.10 on a fairly large wall outside of Enterprise. It has a write up in a old issue of Climbing. I always wanted to go back and do it, but never did. If you really want the beta on this route you should troll for some info from Steve House. Good luck. Bottom line is Elkorns = Sweet skiing, but poor rock, although the bouldering aint too bad. Cheers, http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=11&n=4976700&e=405191&s=100&size=l&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25

I actually watched arguments in this case on the UW channel. MSR and SMC I believe gave testimony. They argued that Omega had unfair subsidies from the state in producing their prodocts that lead to unfair competition subsidized by the state. This is supposed to be a no no for the inmate industries program. The most important argument that I heard was the cost of utilites, such as water and electrcity. From what I understand Omega was getting a huge reduction in their operating costs by getting water and power for nearly nothing which is very imporant in the climbing gear manufacturing process for hardware. While it is good for inmates to work I doubt anyone would like to see MSR or SMC have to layoff fine upstanding hard working folks because they were getting beat in the market place by a company receving unfare government subsidies. BYT I am not affiliate with any of these companies and am not involeved with any manufacturing company.

I don't know who is most, but all the climbers from Oregon I know have heard of the Menagerie (however, very few have actually climbed there) and most likely even if it is published there still won't be a huge crowd since smith is not much farther away and the mixed and trad nature won't fit the majority of climbers out there although it suites me fine.

I have a set of tech friends and older rigid freinds. I find that the older rigid friends are excellent pieces especially for the larger 3 to 4 inch sizes. The seem way more stable than my comparable trango and metolious large size cams. I want to get a couple more 3.5 and 4 inch forged friends for those wide cracks. They are a great deal.

Now that is what I am talking about. We have heard of something new today. Thanks ashw_justin

In the supertopo guide for Red Rocks, there is a picture of George Urioste on Chuckwalla (I think) wearing hand jammies. I have considered buying a pair to replace tape, which I liberally use. I don't care what anyone else says, shoes are aid, cams are aid, the rope is aid, icetools are aid, crampons are aid, chalk is way-aid. I am infact an aid climber. I don't give a rats what you think is aid. I would like to hear from folks who have used the Jammies. I have never tried them on. Anyone know if a store in the Seattle Area carries these? Also the argument that they make your hands bigger is laim since peoples hands come in all shapes and sizes. For any given crack each individual finds the best jams they can depending on their hand size.

what kind of fall? I do not see how you could take a "fall" top roping with and ascender on routes that don't wander all over the place. THere is no falling cause there is no slack so it is just like jugging. I don't know many people that top rope when the conditions are such that the rope is iced up! I know that ascenders can come off the rope and can damage the rope under certain situations, but using in the manner I have desribed I don't see how. So no one has yet said they know of a situation where an ascender failed while using for solo toproping. I know there are people that use this technique all over the country cause I have personally seen several individuals at multiple climbing areas doing it.

Many people been selling soloists or giving them away. Some have said the work for hands free solo toproping. I am not sure this can be done if rigged in the intended manner, although the rope feed real smooth leading. The only method I am aware of that works pretty good for straight routes, especially good for columnar basalt cracks, is by using an ascender and a chest harnes with a fixed rope. The rope at the bottom is coiled to hang a foot or so off the ground to provide weight so the ascender is free to slide up smoothly at the start of the route. Also, I have seen this old Austrian dude at Smith that drilled a hole through a round river cobble stone that probably weighed a few pounds and attached the stone to the lower end of the rope with a prusik type knot. Either way the bottom of the rope is weighted to allow the ascender to slide smoothly. When done properly there is not slack in the system and no shock loading when falling. Usually you jus slip off and hang. I have used this system with a static line and a petzel jug on probably well over 100 pitches, usuall on fairly straight cracks about 50 to 100 feet tall. I have never had a problem and never have heard of a problem, although it is possible that the jug could come unclipped from the rope. A way to further reduce this possiblity may be to use a gibbs ascender. What are other methods and has anyone ever heard of the ascender method failing?

Obviously posted by someone who hasn't toproped with an ascender. If you top rope straigh lines, like columnar basalt cracks etc. the ascender moves directly up the rope as you climb and you don't really fall at all. There is no slack in the system if done properly. You just hang there. I use a static line as well so it takes abrasion just fine. Ther is no more shocking to the system than speed jugging a line. The real danger is not shredding the rope, but the ascender accidently coming unclipped from the rope somehow. However, if you stay in control and climb lines that are nearly straight then there should be no problem. I have used this system to toprope probably over 100 pitches. And know some old timers that have been doing this for decades. I also have never heard of the system as described here of failing, although I would not discount the possibility. So the real ? to Mr. Montana is show me the money! I've never heard of the rope shreding using this technique. Again we aint talking about lead climbing here, but in control top roping on nearly straight up routes.

Not out of kilter, I was at the switch back at 2834-ft and was looking at Bald Mt. Mark hana PMed me about this and I think I will have to go scramble up it when the snow smelts. Thanks for the info. Anybody scambled up the SE Face?

On the deer creek road, anybody been up to the slab that is strait west of the last 90 degree hook in the road before you get to the Kelcema lake trailhead? Is it choss, doen't look to bad from the road. Looks like you could get 3 to 4 pitches in a few places.

tasy bite offers a bunch of tasty products that are in an MRE style pouch and very packable. Fred Myers carries this brand in their health food section. The phad tai and the noodles with peanut sauce are both pretty good. They have curry too.

with all respect to Mattp, humping a haul bag into the Witch D. with all the pain in the ass involvement along with being out in the relative middle of no-where with a good deal of adventure is a perfet training ground for VI routes cause grade VI is about suffering (for most mere mortals) and I can't think of a better place to pratice a little S&M suffering.

I would be interested to know if there is any oportunity to fix some pins in that middle section for a belay?

the question remains then on the descent do you have to down climb that section? Something seems amiss here to me that someone would go through so much trouble to drill so many bolts and include mandatory soloing in the middle of the route.

not to beat a dead horse but the soloist sucks for top roping you have to pull the rope through as you go even with weight. A much better alternative is an ascender with a chest harness for top roping