matt_m

Is it just me or is Crystal crazy to close in early April? With the base they have this year it seems PRIME for some sunburn spring skiing. Same goes for Blackcomb closing mid April. Got to be a lot of people still out on the slopes - It's certainly not lacking conditions wise!

There are new guides due out now or in the near future - the big'un Vogel guide has been split into an east and west 2 volume set

Squam ratings are all over the place I've done 10s that were STOUT and 10s that were soft -same for 9s and 11s.

This post has a lot of flame potential but regardless, here we go... You don't see a lot of 5.5 and under in the west coast - The rock doesn't really "allow" it. The gunks have tons in that range because of its horizontal nature. My guess is that over the years since you last climbed - people visited more areas and isolation grades started to disappear as climbers saw what was truly "easy" fifth class. The 5.8 and 5.9 grades of the "classic" era are LOADED with grade debates. Basically, climbers started to push difficulty more and more but really didn't know how much harder the new climb was than that old 5.7 and since, for a while anyway, 5.9 was the limit - things just got called 5.9 It's a well know fact these days that when you climb at and "older" area on "old" climbs you should be VERY wary of the 5.8+ or 5.9+ ratings - they could be MUCH harder (Modern Times at 5.8+ in the gunks is a CLASSIC example). Are grades softer in some areas? Yes. Climbers can and will argue till times end that the older stuff was harder and the newer stuff is over rated - I just climb it and say "old school 5.8" or 5.8 and move on. RE: Bolts at belay stances - This is loaded with heat and debate and many will get so worked up about it that you'll soon have 10 pages of rants about ethics or old timers not keeping up, convenience vs solid anchor skills etc etc. Frankly, unless the bolted belay is so offensive to the local ethics and practices (like porn, most know when they see it but opinions vary in amsterdam vs salt lake) that is causes a mass climber riot - its a personal issue: choose to climb the route or don't. Looking at your table - OS P3 start - Org says 5.8 and depending on which way you go (left is 5.8 rt is 5.9) the grade will vary - Smoot isn't clear on this but i think it's accurate. P3 traverse? stays at 5.9 thought the years but I believe some of that flake that gives you footholds has broken off over the years - when that breaks off more the grade will go up. Pedestal varies with which way you go hence the grade variations. Crack - the moves off library ledge give the pitch it's grade IMO - everything above that first 15 feet is easier. Angel - this sucker has gotten seriously polished over the years and has had a lot of erosion at the base - grade creep do to wear and tear? Midway can be attributed to the age of the route, same thing for saber I'd guess - 5.3 should be easy for almost anyone... Classic crack - "old school rating" I'd leave it old school because, well it is.

Heard rumors of new WA area guides? (No NOT smith) Anyone know about this? WA PASS perhaps? Mazama?

Whoa - Never WENT over there so easy on the trespassing call. I've climbed the developers routes in OTHER areas, not Vantage. Deep breath - I know all about being conscious of access issues.

So what the story on that area - I was flipping through the guide book (The need for warm rock has returned) and noticed this section I'd never seen before... I get there was some bolt issues, controversy etc and access was lost (in 2001?) What was the story there? Anything new? I've climbed several of the developers routes and thought they were almost all excellent. Long climbs in Vantage this time of year sounds great. If this is a "hot topic" I'll gladly delete - just PM me. M

Just wanted to give a thumbs up to the selection of hard goods over at Marmot. Stopped in there on a whim and got to fondle all sorts of new stuff and their gear wall made me think of the ole Rock and Snow selection of my youth. Can't tinker with stoves then DMM biners then Met Ultralights then nordic skis in one place very often any more. Nice

I'll second yates gear - often a better sling job than the original.

any chance with all the sun this will be dry this weekend?

yeah so I wasted at least 2 hours watching those top gear things yesterday - the one with the 800 mile fuel tank is AWESOME

Laugh - and I thought it would take longer than ONE post for someone to claim "weak" or "poor form" My form is just fine. So... PULLING on GEAR is better form than trying something all free? I'm not going to get sucked into a classic cc.com black hole however - I just wanted to know if anyone has done it. If not no worries and thanks for the read.

This has become a goal route for my partner and I this year but the thought of walking up and doing a ground up try is a bit much at this point. Descriptions like "This pitch is something to really sweat over for both the climber and belayer" come to mind. Anyone have beta or experience rapping in to try the various pitches on TR first? Added benefit - the route will get cleaned up at the same time. M

Yawn - another silly "I hate bolts so I'll slippery slope it to Via Ferrata invasions!" thread drift by pope. Get over it...

Good news! After a search of the local neighborhood my buddy found most of his stuff piled behind a dumpster. Got his rack and most gear back, just lost a 2 BD packs, a tikka and his crappy gym rope. Not great but better than $3000 down the hole. Thanks for keeping an eye out though

My buddy (forum-fobic) just called me saying his ENTIRE rack and other gear was stolen from his Truck early this morning (Tacoma 4 Runner). He lives in Bremerton (Mannette to be exact) and asked me to post something so the community could keep an eye out for any suspicious "Gear Sales". His list from memory: Set of C4s from .4 to 3 I think Set of Camalots .4 - 3 They should be distinct because most had color matched DMM prowires on them. Double set of Tricams - pink to brown about 20 dovals crap load of draws - also distinct - one side Superflys, the other JC wires Slings - noticeable because they're of the red and white WC 10mm type - not very common Pair of Galileos Pair of Zlippers Any info would be much appreciated!

I think the TCU vs Alien debate can be greatly influenced by your local climb area and rock. Gunks for example are THE place for a double set of regular aliens. The flexi cables are great for the small horizontal placements found there. TCU (Metolius anyway) aren't as good. The way the rock has weathered in squamish (lots of flakes and flares) Offset aliens are AWESOME (wish I had two sets). Protecting thigns like Apron Strings (not hard) become automatic. Good bye pump factor!. Where things get more interesting are at places like Index or the Valley. Here your cracks are laser cut BUT have pin scars. In old ANGLE scars - nothing beats the aliens or offsets BUT when the crack is thin and the scars are smaller (LAs or knifeblades) I find the aliens cable tends to get in the way. Specifically the small metal bar that attaches the cam wires to the control sleeve. TCUS work perfectly here where aliens do not. SPECIFIC Example: P1 of Japanese Gardens, pulling the small roof into the first crux, you can get gear in right at the lip. You can use a nut but a cam is probably more secure as you thrutch to reach the finger locks above. An alien doesn't really work here BUT a blue TCU fits PERFECTLY. Aid climbing as well - I wouldn't be caught dead without Offsetc or TCUs on a wall. SO - I have and use all of the above and vary them based on the region I'm at. The C3s look like they'll just add to my weaponry!

Anyone been up there recently? Should I bring a chain saw for the "giant log" in the road? How's the alder growth on the road? Paint jobs beware? M

Hard but great climb - Lower part is straight forward. I find you can place a 4.5 or 5 in part of it BUT I remember getting good gear in on the main wall BEHIND your head (.75 camalot i think) and some good gear (yellow tcu?) in the "mini" corner roof about halfway up - it takes creative pro but as long as you LOOK every which way you should find it.

Ok - good info so far everyone - keep it coming. I want to put in some more time up there to "get a better feel" for the area before I do anything. All the info help point me in the right direction. Comment: Cleaning up old tat or replacing the SMC hangers is pretty straight forward. The suggestion of pulling and patching enters into tougher territory. What do people mean by "can be protected with modern gear". If they mean you can slam a bomber #4 camalot in a wide crack where once they had nothing (ala the old holes on Outer Space - #3s?) I agree - the bolts have been made irrelevant by technology. If "protected with modern gear" means a nest of HB brassies with screamers - I might have to disagree since the "character" of the original route will most likely change. You can see this can of worms before you open it - I'll take a look but if it's not obvious I'll either leave it be or just replace old with new. Nothing's on tap anytime in the near future so no worries either way. See everyone on the rock...

Planning on heading up there the next few weekends as the fall gets its groove on. Last and only time I was up there (last year) I remember that a lot of the fixed hardware was in dire need of replacement. (Scary rusty 1/4in on Yellow Bird come to mind). A conversation I had at index recently also indicated there was a lot of old stuff up there that could use some replacement. Now, before I go lugging the equipment up there I wanted to get peoples thoughts on what needs upkeep and replacement. Routes? Bolts? Anchors? Rap Stations? Want to keep a great area from falling to the wayside.

The major challenge with ANY shop trying to be a "climbing shop" is that climbers are 1) an extremely small consumer group 2) tend to spend conservatively 3) are picky bastards 4) like to complain SO - truly be a successful shop (in a climbers eye) you need to have a VAST assortment of gear and knowledge and have it at a good price. From a business perspective this is a hard thing to do and even harder to do well. Having lots of selection/inventory is costly so unless you have a lot of throughput it's very difficult to carry a BROAD selection. Even harder is to match low prices because your sales volume is low. Internet shops are successful because they can reach A LOt of climbers and thus their volumes can remain higher and in turn their prices can be lower. You guys can bitch all you want but the reality is climbers a bad consumers. There are only a few places I can think of where you have a destination climbing area, solid climber culture, the $$ demographic and the through put to maintain a good shop. Rock and Snow in NY with the Gunks up the Street and NYC an hour and half away. The Mtn Shop in Yos. IME or EMS in North Conway, NH Others? Yes Seattle has a lot of diverse climbing opportunities and frankly, with the $$ in this town and the climbing from Squamish to Smith I'm surprised there isn't a Rock and Snow esque shop in town. There are lots of options and combined you can get what you want. REI contributes to this selection as does FF, Jim's Shop, Marmot, Cascade Crags and even Mgear.com. No one place has everything though and I don't expect them to. Also of note is a certain "anti-gratuitous-gear" attitude found in the PNW. The tree hugging trickles down to gear purchases too. In the gunks EVERY newbie had a new shinny rack of C4s and no one blinked an eye (Rock and Snow rolls in the $$). Here, there's a certain 'tude if you have shiny stuff and drive a new audi all-road. Different strokes for different folks. All in all - I get gear from all of the above and don't expect one shop to have everything. Bitching about REI not having one thing and having too much of another is silly. Name me one shop that has all your needs. Me - I like having multiple shops because each one offers something different. I've never liked the "vibe" at FF for example but they have stuff that other shops don't. Jim's place is cool as is Marmot. REI? Frankly I LIKE going with my Girlfirend or family and getting my world wrap and smoothie, playing with the newest stove and buying new carabiners (They have the new DMM spectres for example). And Just so I feel like a PNW rebel - I get a stylie softshell and a Startbucks before I leave.

I just played this "combo" game as well. I worked rough framing job for several summers and learned what abuse tools could take. Dewalt, Porta Cable were my favs so I looked there to start with. The rigid stuff also looks solid. The KEY question you have to ask is "How often will I use this stuff?" Once in a LONG while? Monthly? Daily? If you have several home improvement projects on tap or work in the industry - go bomber or bomber warranty. Right now if that were my need I'd go Rigid. If it's just a hankerin for some tools to do the ocaisonal picture hang or wood cut you need to fight the built in Guy urge to purchase SICK tools. You have no need for that kind of quality if you'll be taking them out once or twice a year. I got the $99 Ryobi set with 2 bats, drill, saw and light. Frankly, I don't know how they sell it for that little. Worth checking out. If you're gonna abuse them though.... Porta Cable Circular saw is the ONLY corded saw to own. That and a Bostich N-80 nailgun....

Older one I believe - Boots were purchased March of 2003.