matt_m

Crampons SOLD - Scarpas still Avail. I've come to terms with the fact that I am not an alpinist. My love lays closer to the warm granite of Squamish or Cathedral/Whitehorse in the Fall than the ice in the winter. Evidence? The still new in the box Scarpa Alphas AND BD Sabretooth poon's I've had since moving here 2 years ago. Boots have walked through the kitchen twice. Scarpa Alphas: SZ 11 Never Used - $175 incl Shipping

Fast and Good when I got my megas there. Same for my mambas

Clearing Out the seldom or never used gear... Garmont Ferrata SZ 44 (about a 10.5 or 11 US) info here Shoe Info Worn for one trip (about 25 miles) realized I got them a wee bit small - great boot toes don't like $50 Garmont Sticky Weekend SZ 44 (10.5 or 11 US) Lack insoles because I used my Superfeet in them - same story as above - low milage but I think they are a but to small - I've come to term with my big feet. Similar to this Sticky Twist $40 SOLD: New In Box BD Crampons: Contact Strap - Never used them. $50 Older style without the "orange color"

A lot of good points here. Here's my issue with the "modern bolting" debate. DC was right in that I read many of the "old school" comments as people who support "modern" bolting are pussies. I state this outright: Grid bolting has NO PLACE in climbing. Nor does retro bolting established bold climbs. Spacing 4 feet between bolts is embarrassing as well. I however do not stick to the "bolting only as a last resort" arena either. I fall in between. My major issue with the claims that the old proud way is best is that it defies my logic. Take very bold slab climbing - I've got some experience with this so I'll stay close to this area. Old school run outs are part climbing lore and as such should remain, for the most part, un-touched. I'll get to exceptions in a moment. I enjoy comparing my mettle to those of past years. Like stated before - If you're not up to match mettle don't climb it. The caveat here is that the "Nature" of the slab route is fairly bold throughout the climb. When you get on it you know you're going to be in the thick of it for a while. Where I have issues with older routes is when the "boldness" is not in the nature of the climb. 800 feet of protect-able cracks with one section of X climbing because someone didn't place a bolt is seems pointless to me. (Preserving the rock as a resource is another debate and I'm not going to muddle the topic with it - it is a valid debating point however) I compare this "old an bold" belief to war tactics. In the civil war, they all lined up in a row and got shot. Only later did tactics include "defilade" to preserve troops. Looking back we wonder - why the hell did they line up like that? I do the same thing sometimes - Why would you put yourself in extreme peril? I'm not talking a simply risky situation where a fall could do limited damage - I'm talking falls with badly broken bones and dying as consequences. Why? It makes no sense. Very few climbers are in the sport to cheat maiming and death. That's not proud that's stupid. (Note here: I am NOT a product of the gym although I am not "old" either. I started in the Gunks pre gyms and apprenticed etc etc. No I don't think climbing should be a "safe" sport - Hardly in fact.) What I see as the issue is those that hold onto old "questionable risk" ethics vs those that appreciate the place for both old AND new. Again - grid bolting is not what I am advocating. I HATE gym climbers that have no clue how dangerous climbing can be or believe is should be safe. I guess you'd say I'm a believer in "risk within reason". The newer climbs on the Apron (squeezing aside) are examples of this - I did one newer pitch there (10d?) where the bolting spacing was ~ 15 feet. Still scary but not the sh_t your pants look like a motorcycle accident runouts like on the 10ds on Dream On (I bailed left into Anxiety State) Both were great climbs and I'd do both again BUT I'd be pretty critical of someone who put up another Dream On style route. It would be like lining up Civil War style after learning better war skills. ehh... short attention span setting in - critique away...

way up for Jay and his well stated post. There is hope for the future yet.

And this is why the "new" generation of climbers doesn't give a crap about what the "old and bold" have to say. Statements like this do nothing to further the noble history of climbing - both bold run outs because of lack of funds or a desire to preserve the rock. Why would I listen to you let alone respect your opinion. I fully want to preserve the history and style of old (while looking to the future as well) and yelling that you walked to school uphill both ways certainly isn't the way to do it. How do I do it then? I have the "youth" gym climbers read camp 4 or Rowell's Yosemite Climber. Great journals and stories about visionaries and their passion. Well written, and respected. Will every newer climber listen or care? Most certainly not. But calling every new climber a weak idiot virtually assures that they won't listen.

Good points - Certainly those greats of climbing have valid arguments as well. I guess I'll state that I'm a member of both camps. Bolts can and do get placed in spots that make me mad because they're obviously NOT needed. Experience and skill would keep you safe. In those cases - bolting the climb DOWN to your level is inappropriate. For me, I support both because I believe there is room for both in the climbing world. "Modern" climbs put up with a conservative, safety-first style are great and NEED to be available. Putting a bolt on a ridge traverse because one can't safely climb a 5.6 hand traverse is NOT what I mean by this. Bold climbs that reward the strong headed climber also have their place. I've scared my self silly on the Apron (Bran Flakes anyone? Lower, non 5.12 pitches of Dream On?) and enjoyed (in a sick way) every minute of those climbs as well. I swing both ways! I guess my point is, with rock resources in more crowded climbing areas diminishing, putting up a bold and dangerous route is a waste of the resource. There are plenty of those climbs already in existence. Spread the climbing around. Now, in the more alpine environment, which is where I believe Messner and Chouinard had their gaze set, there is arguably a NEEDED level of competency. Dumbing the climb down is inappropriate. If you can't pull the 5.7 move on a ridge, than maybe you need to get better overall skills first, instead of bolting the resource down to you. Alpine and cragging areas have inherently different "styles" and "ethics" IMOP. The bolting debate will never die - I support tightly bolted lies as well as bold run-out scare fest. They each have their place. It is the short sighted climber who believes in absolutes. My way is the only way is a thought process I deplore.

Just another note on history and the FAist intent. A lot of icons of the Golden Age on have been interviewed over the years about their various opinions on routes they did etc etc. One theme I almost universally see come up is that they didn't want their routes to be run-out death traps, they simply didn't have the means to bolt them better but wanted to do the climb anyway. Historically, these guys (Bachar excluded) were adventurer's with limited means and limited technology. They could only afford one good kern-mantle rope so the haul rope was hemp etc. Same goes with bolts. I can't remember who or what climb it was (significant one though) The climber said all he could afford to buy was 6 bolts so that's all they used on the ascent. Years later, when asked he said that if he'd had the means he would have certainly put more in. I've read this same account from many an older climber. Point is, a lot of head strong people get up in arms that we're not "bold" like the gritty men of old. Truth is, the gritty men were bold because they were too poor not because they were trying to make an "adventure" statement. I'm not saying climbs should all be retro'ed BUT I am saying that the "preserve the danger and adventure" mantra sprayed about by modern climbers is often an idea they invented, NOT the older guys. Creating artificial danger purely for the sake of adventure and danger is antiquated and mis-guided at best and plain wrong in many cases. I'll still support a bold, ground up slab ascent here and there (how some of those guys drilled on lead is beyond me) - good on you for the style but putting up a seriously run out 5.8 when it's obvious it didn't need to be is reckless and irresponsible. In this day and age, if you're drilling you certainly can afford the proper hardware to equip it properly. Many an old "hard man" wishes they had the means you do now, back in the day...

you might want to go buy a firewire PCMIA card - the work around won't be as efficient as just plain firewire and unless you've got USB 2 that firewire to USB thingy won't have the speed to capture properly.

Thanks - both for the heads up and the cleaning - I've heard that route is great but suffering from dirt as well - The effort is appreciated (esp when I get on it). Ignore the anti-cleaning flamers on here... not worth your time.

Heads up to anyone going up Gun Rack in Clems Holler - the top of the second pitch (5.7) right below the anchors lost a church pew sized chunk in the past week or so. I did it with a bud about a month ago and the rock was there (put an alien in the crack it made as you pulled over the "roof" off the slab) It not there anymore and left a sharp edge as well

FYI - For those who read this forum and are new I think it's worth pointing out that the two Guide Book authors have a fairly well know distaste for one another that can be read in the introductions in each book. In Tony's defense, he's very opinionated and can rub people the wrong way on occasion BUT it's my understanding and belief that his book was (it's out of print right now) the much more accurate of the two. He went and interviewed the FAists and put a lot of older, unpublished history in his book, including original route names. The Bingham supporters cried bloody murder and the Calderone supports cried right back. I think the true story lies somewhere in the middle....

FYI - Birds are gone (ie the nest was there but no sign of the birds) Climb On

Ahh - in that case no harm no foul

Hey - get and freaking grip man. I don't think he was asking "how hard is it?" in the I'm scared way (In fact I know he's more than solid - are you?) he was asking if it was worth doing. Jeezus you need to get over yourself.

Ummm... how else do you propose to ascend the rope? Bite the rope with your mouth while you slide the other one up? 2 ascenders per person is standard. One wants two ascenders/team (not person) dumbshit. Two ascenders per team ONLY if you're not hauling in which case you most certainly would want two ascenders per person - one cleans while the other hauls. Way too quick on the dumb-shit call there tough guy...

What does the ASCA have to do with anything? They're sole purpose is to REPLACE old, manky fixed gear placed "back in the day". They're not putting in new routes that are tightly bolted. I don't want to hear any of that - manky bolts make it "real" climbing crap either. When they were put in, those bolts were SOLID (or as solid as 1/4in compression bolts could be) and the FAist climbed under that blanket - THOSE WERE SOLID BOLTS. 30 years later they're not and the ASCA is returning them to original condition. I STRONGLY think contrived danger (ie climbing a route that's dangerous solely because there are manky bolts) is one of the dumbest things going in climbing right now. If the route was bold, great - I've done HUGE run-outs on slab numerous times. If the route is bold because it has old hardware that's more than even the FAist was experiencing. The ASCA does the climbing community a valuable service, period.

Positive for the following 2 reasons 1) I've done it and the Last rap (note - you need to rap more than the split pillar) to the ground is near 60m 2) A 70m cord only gets you a 35m rap MAX = 114ft so you'd be short EVEN if you only had to rap the split. Bring two 60m cords

Might do that climb mentioned in the back of Squamish Select with some friends this summer as a good "Easy Euro Looks Cool" adventure. Anyone done this? Guide mentions a free lift ride up with the right "pass" any info? I'd save this for a day when it's too hot in Squam and then drink a Guinness at the base to end the day. MMMMM

Dovals are the devil biner. Well not really - they a great "utility" biner at anchors and such BUT under no circumstances should they be utilized in a place that requires clipping them while climbing. Because of their uniform shape it hard to tell which is the OPEN side. Not fun when you're locked off in a powerful lieback sketching to clip in... Yikes

I use WC Heliums and DMM Spectres and haven't looked back - Best biners out there hands down - You do need a small loan to outfit yourself however... I just swore off new clothing and $5 coffee for a while...

No worries all - Classic example of the excitement we all can create with a little too much time. My S.O. having never seen a good ole slanderous Chat Forum got nice and worked up (she rarely has time in her line of work for an internet life) so I had to explain to her a typical topic run like this. I believe she requested a cold Guinness as reparations for the posts.

Damn - I post a little inquiry about what may have happened to my cam and it somehow turns into two pages of slander? Damn - got to love the internet forms and the social scene they create. In no particular order... WTF is up with the google search and link? Did you skip the ones where they have Track and Field Results or the PICTURE of me in the Kitsap Sun (not my fault - lady was there that day) Might as well google John smith - Weird post and way off base. Moving on... People need to get a SERIOUS grip on the whole "Your partner lied to you!" angle. Wow - issues Frankly, I KNOW she didn't lie but, it being her first time outside I took what she reported with a grain of salt - Going off the wall and saying this person is untrustworthy (again, I STATED SHE WAS NEW) is a little nuts. You know what? I figured out what happened (partially based on this post) so let me lay it down I wanted to take the G-friend outside for the first time - She's new to the sport so I went with something easier for her to try. I own three racks and grabbed the oldest one KNOWING THERE WAS A GOOD CHANCE something might get left behind. CLimber the route, at the roof I clipped a fixed Metolius Hex and, realizing she might not know what to do with the fixed gear told her to take everything but the fixed piece (Keep this in mind). She climbs - we get up to loggers ledge and as I re-rack for saber I notice the MIA #1. She says she didn't leave anything behind (take note) nor drop anything (I watched her most of the way and agree). She's damn smart (M.D.) and I know she wouldn't lie so I'm left to assume the piece unclipped and fell. I was curious what happened to it nonetheless (since piece unclipping are rare but not unheard of) I even ran back up to the base to see if it had fallen back to the ground. Another thing to add was the fact there was a another party starting up the route when I was belaying on Stoners Ledge. So I get home and post the L & F report, more just to see if anyone had found it so I'd know it wasn't abducted - The whole crunchy karma thing isn't my bag but thought it might make the post sound more friendly. Frankly I too am of the old guard you leave it it's up for grabs. (Search for my post ANNOUNCING a brand new piece on Outer Space a while back - again - a calculated risk with some newer climbers - No expectations I'd get it back - just wanted someone to go grab it. I've benefited from booty and left it with no regrets keeping what I've found) Frankly, the hostile, rub it in your face post was dumb and uncalled for. I would have been more than happy to hear - yeah I found it and I'm going to adhere to the booty code (can I patent that? The Booty Code? That way if you find something you can call Booty code and not worry someone will get torqued that you kept it in the age of the internet - OK - Unless circumstances are extreme - I call booty code on any future gear I find! LAUGH!) anyway - The Resolution to the CC.com Lost CAM Scandal: Here's what happened - Partner left the cam behind and CLEANED all the gear off of it thinking it was the fixed piece I spoke of (Hence the missing carabiner on the FOUND piece) The neutrino probably just got sucked into the spares on my rack without my noticing it. I never said the fixed piece was a Hex (which newer partner wouldn't know anyway) Bottom line, I wasn't as clear as I could be and a piece was inadvertently left behind. No big deal. I posted on CC.com to 1) See what happened to the mystery cam and 2) chance someone might give it back BUT WITH NO EXPECTATIONS THEREIN - I know the code and stick to it but I've also given back a 70m rope I found "just because". I've kept plenty as well. Someone posts that they found it, my partner is a lier and sucks and I beat my wife. CC.com flame war ensues... I could point out all the flaws and reasons the response was lame and wrong but - ehh - thats just too damn easy. Everyone here knows the score...

Full reply coming shortly...

Yep - you need at least 50m doubles to get down and 60m if you don't want to swing to the base of apron strings for the last one