matt_m

Any tricks or things to keep in mind when rapping off DH-LA with a 60m rope? (first time rapping the UTW) yeah - don't! just barely might be the case with his 60m but I know of others that came up 5 feet short and had to flip upside down and clip the anchor with a 4' sling. not good. IIRC my 70m had TOPS, 12 feet to spare on one of the raps (the anchor beneath the roof - top of P2 I think). So 70m minus 24 feet = 63m if I'm conservative. Close but, man, that's a suck ending if you don't have the "long 60m"

I would suggest that some of the crack-bolters are sport-climbers who don't know how to climb cracks. Crack climbing is an art that takes practice. Given that a lot of sporto's are gym-graduates, many probably don't have the appropriate skills. Last time me 'n "pope" went to a gym (some place in Seattle), there was a just a little section in the giant complex with a hand crack. We walked right up this thing and most of the gym-rats stared at us like we were a couple of aliens. Not only aren't the sporty masses trained well (or at all) for cracks, they're not trained well to place protection. They learn, in the gym and at the sporty crags, that clippin' bolts is "how it's done". Crap like this is why I find myself defending the gym person more than the "old school tradie" I learned "pre-gym" for the record and go out of my way to teach the kids that climb in my gym about gear, natural climbing ethics style etc. Unlike raindawg, who seems to think a holier-than-thou, demeaning attitude is the answer to his "issues", I try to be positive and encourage the "newer generation" to see, do and respect all types of climbing. I climbed with them at smith (the spawn of the devil area to dawg) - got on the bolted climbs with them, had a great time and they were psyched. Then I said - lets go do these cracks. Guess what, they had a great time and were psyched. Now, they respected my views and as time goes on, I'm able to share my thoughts on grid bolting (negative) slab climbing (positive) etc etc. Guess what? two just started racks and asked when I was heading out to index next? Weird huh? Now imagine if I called them un-skilled sporto gym rats and mocked their abilities while praising my own. Yeah, they'd ignore any advice on ethics or anything else and the rift would grow. Great way to improve climbing knowledge and respect of the natural way. Stop being part of the problem.

Pretty sure the "don't know any better sportos" are responsible for what seems like 50% of the routes in the Guide. areas like Pearly Gates were also done by the "sport climbers" weird... Javelin FA is listed as 1995. The others named in 2001. All these lines have been climbed over and over and over again. Little late to whine now... East Buttress of Mid Cathedral has a bolt ladder on it that can be freed! We should go get that too! IF it's the same crew I've met - they're very thoughtful, experienced and knowledgeable about route development. Did some FANTASTIC lines they had put in the day before that were mixtures of gear and bolts (all I thought, very well done - gear for the cracks, bolts for the chicken head climbing etc)

Done the route numerous times. The first bolt is located above the good gear and keeps you from decking from 20' up. There is a good cam lower BUT marginal gear at best where the bolt is. Small flared 0 TCU placement. Also of significant note: even if you could get gear in a bit lower, you have to pull up onto the slab above out of the corner. If you blow the moves getting to the next bolt, you'll ground out before the "gear" ever catches you. IT'S BS that a route that's been un-screwed with for a good 4-5 years and is a quality line is being messed with now.

If you're just now noticing that leavenworth has everything from stout old school trad to "Friendly" climbs for the masses you missed the "whaaa mbulance" a long time ago. Leavenworth has been mixed ethics for a long long time... You want something to spend energy on? Go do some anchor and bolt maintenence at midnight when it opens and a good ole scrub scrub. Croft just told a bud of mine he skipped an entire summer in squam to climb up there.

I'm surprised this hasn't come up before. How do those in the "anti-IB" camp feel about climbs similar to IB. Crest Jewel Direct for example? It wasn't rap bolted but is certainly in the same camp. How does IB differ from some of the stuff on Mt Yam etc? (never been there but have friends with reliable descriptions) Joseph - just a heads up, having looked my self. The "natural" line you seek will mainly be low quality and loose climbing. Bring pins. Frankly, IB is so ingrained in CC.com history and legend that it needs to remain so a good bolt debate can occur every year. If you take down the lightning rod it may strike elsewhere and do more damage. As I do every year, it's worth pointing out to all the new readers (if you've made it this far) that IB is really only a big deal on CC.com. The VAST VAST majority of climbers out there don't know about it or know enough about it to realize it's a not an issue to loose sleep over.

The cruxes are bolted like skaha - the other pitches like tuolumne

Well put Matt.

For all you new CC.comers - this is the same post as spring 06, spring 05 and spring 04 - IB only comes up on radar here - as stated above it's a non-issue. Some people still think West Face of leaning tower should be chopped....

I've been hearing this a lot lately. "Oh man, Index was totally crowded. It ROCKED!" Weirdo. Not crowded - everyone had a place to climb and it wasn't bothersome - it was great to talk to other index fans and see people out - I'm not a solitude climber I guess - hate the yosemite crowds though - don't get me wrong...

Dru's right - I saw one or two last year - deffinitely rockfall related...

predictions on the # of posts this seasonal cc.com (non)debate will get? INDEX was hopping this weekend which was great - if you're gonna do ANY community "service" work - come scrub some stuff at index!

Any good camping spots up there? Thinking of hitting 3 oclock and ggb this weekend as well. 20% rain means 80% sun right?!?

Beal used to have issues with sheath durability. They were soft catches but also soft sheaths that fuzzed up pretty fast. Beal listened to the bad feedback and came out with their "DryCover" system a few years back (03? 04?) Anyway, the drycover is much much more durable. In fact, brand new they seem like they have a hard outer coating sometimes that takes awhile to fuzz at all. (now - no going to josh or l'worth, TRing the crap out of it and saying HEY! IT FUZZED! Yeah, cheese grater rock will do that...) Being a rope connoisseur myself - these are my top rope brands, I won't buy anything else right now... BEAL - hands down the best rope maker out there. Low impact, high fall and quality. A season vet told me he felt the same way a while back and I've never doubted him on gear since. Edewelweiss - their PURDUR coating and "sharp" protection make these bomber anywhere there are sharp edges to worry about (MY big wall rope is a 70m Sharp) BlueWater - Their Excelerator line is top notch - not quite beal but good. Mammut - always a good rope but I don't look at them much anymore other than the supersafe (never on sale) because the impact forces are too high for my taste. Ropes I've heard good things about / like their impact forces. Cousin (Petzl I think) Tendon. Never even felt one though. NOT Impressed with the Metolious brand tendon ropes though.

rcnw is low key and low bandwidth to keep the wanking to a minimum. There it's only about route info and pretty much that's it.

That pic looks AWESOME - PM the goods if they're not for mass consumption please!

Great route - the 2nd 11a pitch is AWESOME. Have yet to check out the other DG route up there Heavens Gate but have heard great stuff about it as well

70m all the way down works although I haven't come down the Sportfishing wall with it. I've have done and rapped the Senseless thoughts of Paranoia w/70 too.

thanks off white

Hey... Look - the same post and people and spray as last year and the year before that... Best part of this whole post is - go scrub index if you have energy to do something - IB is only controversial to a few people on this site and 99% of climbers in WA a) don't know about it b) have done it and don't have issues with it c) wonder why this always seems like a HUGE topic when it comes up in cc land. seriously - this is so 2003 it's laughable and people get all foamy at the mouth to this day. WOML still is around... the WCC has the best info on their site. Any post on IB is just going to waste 3 pages (wait - that's what we're here for right?) of posts. WCC Site: " Infinite Bliss (5.10b) drew a lot of attention in 2004 after it was publicized in Rock & Ice magazine. The route is within the Alpine Lakes Wilderness and controversy developed over whether it was established illegally with power drills. Questions regarding the route have been resolved with the Forest Service and the route will remain in place; however, the WCC urges climbers to respect the prohibition on motorized equipment in wilderness areas and to exercise restraint in establishing bolt-dependant routes in wilderness. Although Rock & Ice touted Infinite Bliss as the “longest sport route in America,” not all “adventure” is removed from the route. You should expect a very long day, with some routefinding difficulties, long runouts, and long not completely straight-forward descent (via rappel and some very exposed scrambling). Because of some loose rock on the route (and the fact much of the route follows a rockfall funnel), you should think about avoiding it if more than one or two parties are ahead." Bottom Line: A very small # of people stir up a lot of stuff re: IB that was resolved over 3 years ago. The bulk of the climbers don't know about it or don't take issue with it. Even fewer actually climb it and those that do think it an ok route. Not classic and not horrid. Again - there's a lot of energy to be spent by people in the climbing world. How best to IMPROVE the climbing world with that energy is a decision not to be taken lightly. JH has applied his energy to anchor replacement and stewardship at Beacon. I've done a little scrubbing, trail work and anchor work here and there. I also try and educate the "newbies" of the world to all aspects of climbing - bold trad routes and sport climbs alike.

Done it twice - great day out. 35-45 min approach from the road. The road is VERY potholed right now so allow extra time for the drive in. 10b is right on - probably feels harder due to fatigue. watch yourself on the 3rd class stuff - exciting down climb. I've always wondered if you could fix one or two knifeblades in that section to keep it in line with the rest of the route. Places are bolted well, lightly or runout but the 3rd/4th class is the only you will die if you slip part. Seems silly every time I do it. Honestly, I don't think this route is as popular or as controverisal as is made out to be on CC.com (WE all know JH hates it - others love it) I've only known one other party that's summited and few on here - Everytime I've been on it there were NO OTHER parties - people hike to the base once in a while but Deidre it's not. Heck, it's not OS, or ever Saber...

is that the one that got a cleanup and 3/8in hardware recently? don't mind the runout - just the rust

Thanks - got rained out Sat but will be up there soon!

Anyone been up there yet this year? Thinking this warm spell may get me up there soon.

Just leave it as is - a good route. Save the energy, effort and arguments for something that REALLY matters in an area that has much more clearly defined ethic/style preferences. INDEX is a fantastic place because of it's mixed ethics. Just as the Gunks are for their clear no bolts ethics and a place like Kalymnos, GR is for it's staunch only bolts ethics. Beacon is an area to get in a fuss over for example...