glassgowkiss

ian as the rest of the fast ejaculators shpunked a shelaque syrup load and decided to delete his post- what a shame. did you use dry or wet hand? and what did you use to wipe the jizz of the screan? don't worry amber, i mean chacal...

so what's your point?

more like

so like ahh, read the first post. mar 29, 7:30pm at vertical world in ballard

just a reminder about march 29. i guess only 4 people signed up so far. since i live in b-ham i don't think i'll be trying to drum up new patients, so don't worry. what i'll be talking about is soft tissue climbing related injuries, how to prevent them and what to do if you get injured. so show up or don't go on-line later on complaining about your tweaks.

wallstein, i think you are a bit confuzed. metolius is not manufacturing any ice gear, so why would they produce screws? on the other hand they produce a ton of rock gear. now bd is located in the usa not europe, hence their policy od recalls. there were several cm tools that the heads loosened up. as the matter of fact a friend of my took a 30ft whipper when a head of pulsar completly come out. cm/petzel make very good product. they are from europe hence they don't to have to worry about liability lawsuits by trigger happy lawyers. to me gadgets like screamers are just a gimmick. in this case they are heavy, bulky and at least their function is not 100%proven. enough said.

from AAJ: "WI3; sustained 70 degree with possible long bulges of 80-90 degrees; resonable rests and good stances for placing screws WI4: Continuous 80 degree ice or fairly long section of 90 ice broken up by ocassional rest WI5: Long and strenous, with a ropelength of 85-90 degree ice offering few good rests; or a shorter pitch of thin or bad ice with protection that's difficult to place"

curtain call is in fine shape with a lot of cool and hard climbing. let's say climbing leashless overhanging ice is a bit more work for your forearms. weeping wall, climbs on mt wilson and sunny routes in general are getting baked. temps are supposed to cool of a bit over the weekend, should help. the snow fall from last weekend is bonding quite good.

it's interesting to talk to these guys. distel- that's exactly what i told one of the guys involved with this topic. dry-tooling for a sake of dry-tooling is a dead end street. now they are going to redefine ice/mixed climbing again, so the gear manufacturers can drum up more sales. a complete bullshit. go climb, have fun and for all the dwellers out there- get a life

so there is a bit of news for you guys. maybe you noticed bd doesn't make screamers? there is a reason for it. as the matter of fact creamers cause more shock loading onto a piece. most of the force is absorbed by a stratch of the rope during regular fall. skinnier the better, so the forces with thin, double or twin ropes are not so great at all. the problem with the screamers is they rip at the same time the rope is stretching. there were more failures during their tests with then without screamers. i tend to trust their research, since they proved placing screws (in good ice) downward is not the correct way to go (10 degrees up is). metolius had simolar test results and both companies do not manufacture them.

i switched to ergos. i think leashless is the way to go, even for a novice. i don't buy this crap- alpine or ice tools. they all work the same. if you are into slogging (up snow to 50 degrees) just use an ice axe. for everything else use technical tools. good tool is bd viper. charlet is going to start adding a pinky fang for their next season tools. trango is making replacable handle tool, so you can climb leashless or with leashes- i wish both bd or cm started doing the same. if i were you i would hold off till the fall. the season is almost over, why spend money and not use your toys for another 6 or 7 months?

i can't edit my earlier post, so here is an update. the accident (according to a post on ltv.com) was on Superbock. an avalanche shot right over 2 guys and hit one. he is recovering in a hospital. it is 10C in Clagary today. it snowed quite a bit in the past few days and winds were very strong. colder weather is supposed to move in on wed.

for all my critics. first you have to take into account a proximity of the BC ice and the rockies. montana and n. wyoming have the same standards of rating as the rockies. that's for one. a lot of people from WA and BC climb in the Rockies, so i don't think using the same yard stick should be a big problem. second, the grades are not even consistant within themselves- which i see a bigger issue then whether to call synchro 3+ or 4. ok, if everyone votes synchro a basic WI4 (lower end), i don't see how night'n gale can be rated harder and how shreek or loose lady can also be 4+! forrest, i am not for sandbaging, nor for inflating. i just think that in the past 10 years ice equipment evolved, we all use much better ropes, ice tools, crampons, ice screws. a pitch could feel like WI5 15 years ago with a pair of stubais in your hands, but with modern tools, screws which are much easier to place, lighter ropes and better cloths it takes much less effort (both physically and mentally) to do the same pitch. it happened all over the world with rock routes with the development of sticky rubber, cams and other advances. my initial post contained 2 points: #1.ratings of some routes are easier then the grades given in the Rockies. due to the proximity i think it should be the same and writing a new guide would be an excellent point to change things a bit. #2. the ratings of some routes is not consistent within the same area and should be adjusted. let me also clear this up. i am not talking about routes that for every 3- 5 years or routes that form only for 3 days a year. i am talking about routes which form every year and are climbed by many parties. i think using + in the rating is a partial solution. let's say ( i will catch shit for this one) we call Carls Berg a 4+. that would mean that on average it can vary from 4 to 5. changing shreek to 5+ means you need to be a solid 5 leader to get up on the thing. of course there is going to be a year when it will be a classic 4+ or 5, but such is life. using of M scale for mixed/ thin climbs. for instance Dale's route at Marble. why not call it M 5/6. in the Rockies M scale usually means burlier, more physically demending climbing. M5 doesn't equal WI5. in any case, i know Don is doing a great thing by trying to update and rewrite this guide. sorry Don for being pain in the ass on this issue. maybe a little gathering over a beer would be a better idea for trying to come up with cosistent and more acurate ratings? ciao- r for all you winers out there wining and whimpering about bad pro early in the season or slushy ice- i can give you a quarter each so you can call someone who cares. somehow all these seasons in lillooet area i managed to find decent pro when i needed, so i just don't buy this argument. finding screw placements is just a part of the game. if you guys toproped less and led more you would not write shit like that- all i can say- soft.

sorry to say that, but your post makes no sense. climbing is YOUR personal responsibility. a guidebook author is not responsible in any shape or form. so according to you the grades in the Rockies should be changed too, because many climbers from WA or CO visit here and the rating system is much softer there? ok, on the same token let's downrate all the routes in index because some gaper fader from a rock gym might find it difficult? just voicing such opinion is scary. makes me wonder if the present climbing population is becoming so soft that we need to cater to the lowest most common denominator? ice/mixed/alpine climbing IS dangerous, regardless of the level of a difficulty. it is one's responsibility to use judgment.

ok. the conditions just went to shit. avi danger is rated high, even below tree line. ghost was still very good, extremly windy on sat. it was dust storm from the dry lake in south ghost. columbia icefields received about 20 cm of new. saw some parties on upper weeping wall. my tolerance for suffering is much lower with my old age, hence we ended up in cinaplex cave. i am so pumped today i can hardly type. be careful out there, snow is distributed by high winds. there was an avi accident on mt stephen involving ice climbers, don't know any details.

no rule here. gets done spring and fall. fall is better- no cornice. i know it did get climb by a friend of my last october. most of people i know they did it sept/oct. just depends on the year. i almost went in early june. the weather sucked, t-storms every afternoon and then it turn to crap.

too bad u don't sell it in june

i might visit colorado in sept.

dru, u are startning to split hair. first of all what i am reffering to are climbs that form pretty much every year. like carls berg, shreek night'n gale, icy bc. so leave climbs at sea level alone, since they hardly ever form, so 80% of the climbing crowd will never get on them in the next 10 years. (mostly due to the fact they are stuck for 5 days at the office while there is high pressure and it is cold). and my point was that shreek, loose lady, red wall wandrer all are in the same range, which would make them into WI5 category. explain it to me, why is there a car always under loose lady and carls berg doesn't see that much traffic? (even though i think ll is harder then cb). it's because carls berg is rated 5 and ll is 4, that's why.

dru, actually the ice conditions are like the most forgiving i have ever seen. there is more freeze/thaw then in the rockies, hence the climbs fill up much more. it might be more wet, but that is a question of comfort, not the grade. it rearly gets colder then -15c, which in itself makes for easier climbing. all i am saying that the "older climbs" are a bit overrated. and that makes newer climbs put up by jia or rip guy out of sync. i agree with night'ngale a 3+. both times i thought it was like that. so what i am saying why not dowgrade it a bit and make the whole thing more logical?

ok, i buy that. what i am saying then they don't even compare to each other. if carls berg is 5 then red wall is 6 (at least)and that would push shreddie and other harder climbs into wi7.

dru, how do you account for 200m of wi3 on synchro? it's like 70m + 60m of WI3 to a questionable 7-8 m of WI4 and the rest is WI2. and i said synchro is a harder version of cascade, but it is easier then professors hence it would bump it into WI3+ category. when you rap the route do you see any place where the rope is just hanging? the route to the right of icy bc (wtf is the name anyway)- did not see the conversation on that one. btw there is way more vert climbing on this house of sky (lower section) then on the whole synchro.

ok dru, i don't have the guide in fronf of me. but even if it is graded WI4 is it really as hard as professors? honestly, it's more like a harder version of the cascade. also i have heard a rumor the climb to the right of top pitch of Icy BC (name?) was given WI6. there is no way it would be that hard (did it 4 times over the years), since the whole thing is 20m long and there is no hand rest half way up that thing. i think it would be good time to adjust ratings to the Rockies standards, since the book is "under construction". i just don't see how a climb with only 5- 7m sections of vert can be called WI4. and even the little pillar at the top of synchro is like 10m long. so if synchro is 4 then red wall wandrer would be wi5+/6 since it's so much harder (and it's wi5) ok, other comparisons- carlsberg vs real wi5- superbock, cold choice, sourcerer, postscriptum, fine line direct- all typical wi5 and a full grade harder then cars berg. my point is that a lot of climbs in the rockies were downgraded a few years ago (with a new ice guide). the other point is you have to hang on for your life on a wi5.

hey everyone. last weekend made me thinking. i am convinced Don should change a lot of grades in the new guide. a lot of routes the grades are really, really soft (like a purring kitten). like carlsberg- did it something like 10 times all together and that pitch is never harder then louise falls (WI4+). i also have hard time to see how synchro can be 4+, since the longest vertical section is like 5 to 7 m at the most. did night' n gale 2 times and also can't see how this thing is 4+. on the other hand shreek or loose lady were quite hard for the grade. WI5 pitch on red wall was a very good value, at least full grade harder then carlberg i know, i know, conditions hence the grades can vary. on the other hand there should be some yard stick to tell people how hard things are. i would suggest knocking a few of the climbs a bit down a grade or half, up some of them too. and use rockies grading standards: cascade- typical WI3 professors- WI4 Carlsberg - WI5 Pilsner - WI6 just my opinion and suggestion

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