Dane

People actually climb "Step left to Boston", amazing. Bob has it wrong in the '90s guide book. Stepping right out of the top of Dihedral puts you on the "Razor's Edge". It is a complete and independant line, top to bottom, usually top roped. It was originally run out on lead using some really bad natural pro. Later bolts were placed so it could be lead safely from the ground up by following the entire arete, some idiot chopped the bolts . Sporty lead with a run out, bouldering start even with the 4 stone colored bolts in place. I wouldn't want to fall into the Dihedral corner on that lead which is where you would end up I suspect. It wasn't something I would lead again without better pro and decided the climb worth several well placed bolts . A little harder IMO than Ron's climb which is several feet to the right. "Step left to Boston" actually connects face climbing starting just left on the bottom of Dihedral and running into to "Screaming finger" just above the crux 1st roof and was led on sight with poor natural pro to the SF second bolt and finished on SF. Hence "step left". It is short but added to SF's line it makes a moderate and steep face climb top to bottom of the main face. It was getting really hard to fine "new" moderate rock at Minne in the late '80s. These are two climbs worth getting straight on paper and getting out on to climb.

Seemed like the best objective in the area before anyone else really started climbing there in the '70s. So it became our main objective to get up the middle of the wall. My inattentive belayer (thanks Tad, where ever you are) dropped me on a TR into the boulders at the base. Broken heel, a number nasty cuts head to toe and a t- shirt that looked like someone had shotgunned me in the back. Should have been a death fall Really killed my interest in spending a lot of time climbing in Post Falls afterwards. Cliff diving became the main reason I would return.

Do you know know how the name "death fall wall" came about? No one died...btw. Funny story now...not so too funny then.

Post deleted by Dane

No, lucky to get one trip in a year to the Selkirks these days. Still worth the trip for the cracks on Chimney's east face. One of the last times in we did a new route further along the crest line, the west face of Silver Dollar. Just thought someone might enjoy the old pictures and get a good laugh at the EBs and lycra. Cracks are actually even better that they look.

Here are the results of a typical blustery day in early June. A few inches of new snow, wind, running water and a cold, nasty retreat off the east face! A bad day will get you 6 to 8 inches of snow which will make the walk out no fun at all.

We had a little play on words going on that one Relieved the roof got easier instead of harder...much to our surprise it actually turned out to be fun. This for a bunch would didn't have to have "fun", to have fun. Here is Gwain on the FA of "Fun Roof". Trying to figure out the moves and the right pro placements to actually use the tips crack of "Illusions". and a better look at the undercling and LB crux pitch of "FFs". Gwain again below the lightening bolt crack of "Sticky Fingers" on the FA. Jay following the finger crack, 2nd pitch, of Tsunami with the crux roof crack above on the FA. Max getting into the finger section on the 2nd ascent of Yahoody. and the hand crack that got him there.

How did you like fun roof?

Thanks Matt. Back to the original subject instead of a stroll down memory lane, since the dirt and loose rock hasn't changed. I was looking for a quick list of the best at Vantage. Anyone care to add their own, must do, favorites?

Ok, first I was kidding a little on the 5.8 grading for Sex Party It is worth looking at how we originally approached the climbs at Vantage. Of all the cracks we did there originally only Jihad and Lingerie were ever named until Eminger and Kittle decided to do a guide book. Hell we couldn't remember everything we had climbed let alone think of a name for them! Sex Party was the fastest way to hang a top rope on Middle east Wall, so it was lead and soloed to do that depending on how your were feeling that day. No question when i used Sex Party to hang a rope I did it the easiest way possible. Lingerie was/is contrived if you refuse to stem. I tried leading it several times and ended up stemming instead of falling on the upper section of good fingers. Never considered stemming a free ascent of the Lingerie finger crack. I only know how I looked at Lingerie. All it was to me was a really hard, straight in finger crack and something to work out on after it was lead. My only defense is the climb was hard for me so I rated accordingly when asked. Harder for me than the others I have mentioned in this thread and had lead before doing Lingerie. I have seen ratings go up and down depending on climber size and the gear that was available when the FA was done. Good example is Easter Overhang or Spellbound. 5.9 and .11a the first time I did either. Now it is 5.10c and .11d. You'll get no arguement from me either way. Lingerie is .10 today? Cool, works for me. I just like the line, contrived as it may be, which is why I thought it one of the best at Frenchman's As I said I think the people who make FAs at any recognised climbing area deserve the recognition of that effort. While you may perceive my comment as arrogant and short sighted my intention was neither but simply to have the that "new" info available to the climbing community. Screen names aren't a big help when you are looking for past history. History I find interesting BTW. I may not remember every climb I did at Vantage over the years but I do remember my first trips and who held the ropes.

Saber, cool pic thanks! Hey guys just telling you how we did them and how they were originally rated. How you climb them is up to you. We actually did think of Vantage as a gym of sorts. A good place to climb early and late in the year and get pumped on cracks. Since I have never really been good in the heat I also climbed a lot out there in the summer to prepare for Valley trips. Record was a day of 106 degree temps in Spokane. Which made it really warm @ Vantage. When every other crack is just an arms reach or stem away kinda makes naming every crack redundant IMO. Makes grading them darn near impossible. Ya gotta ask Dave about placing bolts by hand in Basalt Bolts that were later chopped by some idiot. PP, you are a little vague on details and names. That is why I continue to question folks who claimed to have climbed at Vantage early on. 1980 was a different time. Leading Vantage rock from the ground up would have been real interesting with the typical choss pile on top. BTW I didn't discover Vantage...Rick Newman, who was from Ellensberg told me about it. I also thought he had a pretty firm grip on who climbed there before we started driving out. I think a little respect is do anyone who claims a FA. Certainly Fred Stanley did more than one route in the area and was climbing hard enough to have done many of the better climbs that were claimed as FAs. If you and your friends we leading climbs on Sunshine wall in 1980 you deserve the credit for it. You certainly imply that you haven't had your due in writing. But what is up with the quotes and the two sentence reply?

Irritated? I wasn't slaging Vantage, Peter, just the guys who name every POS crack/bolt line Although I certainly wouldn't feel bad about slagging the vast majority of climbs at Vantage. My point was, no matter the grade and I sure didn't mention any, I would hardly call any of the three, mediocre climbs. They aren't El Cap either and Vantage is a big choss pile unless I missed your point Quiet wouldn't be the word that would have fallen off my tongue describing Vantage prior to '86. Love to read a the story of who introduced you the Coulee and what you did from 1980 on. I know some of the early details of the area but have heard a lot of BS too. While I have met or known all the guide book authors on the Coulee, the best history of the area that I have read, that actually is backed up by my own experiences there, was done by Yoder and Marlene. Always figured grades were the climbing communities' consensus. Never was too concerned about it. And never thought one person's lead graded a climb. You weren't part of that consensus Peter...having climbed there since 1980? I would have thought you would have written the guide book. Funny too, that in the three guide books ('91, '99, '02) I have sitting here, all of them disagree on ratings for the same climbs almost 20 years after they were first done. Not much of a consensus IMO. Butcher of Bagdad should have a better rating, done on pre- placed bolts and in '94. Ten years after the other 3 were done on gear, all placed on lead. Bad comparison IMO. If I can get over clipping bolts and my lardass maybe I should do them all again and decide for myself. I was just wondering what other's thought were the "best" and some intelligent conversation.

Great pics! Tha makes my second joints hurt just looking at those crimps. You guys ever splat horizontal on those pads? I gotta know

Minne does rock The lower slab and then right and up Diagonal has to be an all time favorite.

Peter, did you do the hand crack or the finger crack 1st pitch? How did you finish the last pitch? Pictures? This one is hard to miss but the first and last give a few options.

Larry and his "slave" Pat put those lines up. I TR'ed Body Scarfer once and never did get up Slave Labor after a number of tries IIRC. Both of them were damn hard for a fat kid. Mahoney was 17 or 18, Larry well past 40 then and I was in my mid 30s. Both of them were climbing hard face much better than I ever could/would. I like the middle lines (around Rock 106) because they were longer and cleaner. I suspect some of Marty's routes are the best on the cliff today but past mid .11 it isn't going to ever matter too much to me. Then again I took a 50 footer (which is really hard to do)off Rock 106, and lived, so I always thought it was the best route there

It is always interesting to see how climbs get rated, down rated, laughed at, choped, chipped and then turned into trade routes over time. When there were no crowds at Vantage...and I mean no crowds, a good many of us 3rd classed Sex Party to hang a top rope. After all it was only 5.8. Lingerie was first lead after being cleaned and top roped once. With no stemming involved the original rating of 5.12a/b in 1985, seemed reasonable in Fire Cats, sliders and a swami. Slippers weren't in vogue yet Neither were gyms and a zillion TRs. Some one (from Yakima or Ellensburg?) wrote it up as a FA in Climbing a few years later and called it Star Blaster or something like that and rated it .12d IIRC. Which was a joke. Pissed me off a bit so I chipped the climb's name at the base. Give the gomers a reference the next time they wanted to claim FAs. .12b seemed reasonable as Stevens Pass/ ROTC was 5.12a/5.11c and Spellbound was 5.11a at the time. Glad someone rated those wankers routes If you have climbed much at Vantage pretty easy to see the climbs change a good deal with flakes breaking off making cracks, stances, hand and foot holds, usually, better. Last I looked the bottom 30 feet of Lingerie (crux) had been chopped to open up the crack. But then we didn't stem on Lingerie either. Jihad was toped twice and cleaned on rappel twice before it was lead in '85. It was a lot harder than Thin Fingers and ROTC IMO. We figured .11c/d It was a longgggggg time before it saw many clean ascents on TR let alone another lead. But things do change for a number of reasons. Just thought those three were some of the better climbs at Frenchman's. Stems and Seeds is by the hardest of all of them for me to lead at .11a ..never was real impressed by ratings. Once everything gets down rated to 5.9 may be I can do them again Funny that Peter. I have done many of the better cracks in the PNW and I would rate those short cracks as some of the best, short of Indian Creek. Max Dufford was willing to proclaim S&Ss as the best stemming problem in Washington. That after having done some of the best at Index.

Most of the stuff people climb these days we wouldn't even name, but the best has to include, Jihad, Lingerie (no stemming please) and Stems and Seeds. Your favorite?

Another easy one..Steven's Pass/ ROTC Hyperspace with Psychopath gets an honorable mention. What do you think?

Strawberry Jam, Dihedral, Ron's from the corner start, Screaming Finger and Heart come to mind. You?

This is an easy one...Illusions/ Free Friends on the East face but "Eye of the Tiger" with an East/NE face start is longer and harder? Sticky Fingers on the West face. For those that have climbed there what is your favorite?

There are some powerful new routes at Dishman but what do you think is the "best" route there? My vote would be Rock 106.

DQ is a nice route but awful short. I always thought the best routes in the city limits were @ Dishman. The direct version of Rock 106 and Firestone would get my vote.

Thanks Ted, that saves me a long drive around next trip. Roof pitch of "Free Friends", 5.10c 10/6/79 Flared, OW, roof crack on the left is "Tsunami".

so make me an offer