billcoe

Someone must have pushed him. Must have paid extra for the good drugs cause he's aweful quiet right now, normally 15 min won't go by without a Porter post. Dude: here's wishing you fast recovery and pretty nurses.

Sorry, climbing. Real climbing....

Thank you Rad!

Welcome home, see you Monday then!

Can't watch it. I'd rather watch a train wreck. More interesting....and intelligent.

Well, I find it interesting that Wayne, who's been on that Mt, hasn't offered his opinion yet. Wayne? Yer thoughts?

Was this that trip when you were so dry yer partner was sucking the water ya spilled down there when the schoolmarms was climbin by? Think I heard of that one. That cramping thing is getting more common as I age.

I'll bring some beer Monday to sedate you about this bolt issue. Ujahns a good dude, primo craftsman/contractor, I'll try and hook you up. Like most, he stays away from teh interweb.

I have now, after a close read, determined that you feel that there are too many bolts. Not enough bolts Inappropriate bolting Irregular and uneven bolting There should be more bolts but there are already too many Bolts should be removed And Bolts should be added Should have no bolts where there are already bolts Should have the shitty cracks beaten out and enlarged Should have the cracks removed. Someone is unhappy when the joy and love of climbing should be flowing through them. Given all that is there and the style it was done, just step up to the plate and fix it - just toss another bolt in there and call it a day. I think that route was bolted trad style and use to have 1/4 inch bolts and it was later rebolted with 3/8". I'm not kidding. I was serious about touching base with Ujahn earlier too. cya Geoff, thank Kyle for the pics the other day - that was great, I'm sooo pumped! Tappet bros. rule like big dawgs-thanks.

Runouts? Ha ha! funny. good one. You are kidding, right?

I agree it’s a bit run vertically but if you look at the second and third route from the right…..there are two bolts not even 12 INCHES apart horizontally. At first glance….I did a double take. I know there is an arête splitting these bolts, but from the ground its looks bad. I thought the 11.- (second route from right), was bolted irresponsible. The guide states you will not deck…..I find that hard to believe. I agree the cracks are dirty (ever heard of cleaning?). Not to be a complainer but…..it looks like someone just got lazy. Most of the cracks I dug my hand into would take great gear…..I am not saying the place does not need bolts…..only a lot less. Climb at your own risk. Yes to have it close for an accident would suck….but the question remains…..does the “possibility” of closure out weight 50 years of ethics? Just asking! I disagree, but I do respect those who came before me. So....you respect this then? Or you respect the people who did this because they came first? Not sure what your saying Kevin. Huge point of order, I didn't say that the "Cracks are dirty", I actually said "shallow and discontinuous, shit for pro." Check my text. I see those as hugely different statements. Especially as far as new climbers to the sport go or even tired old goobers like myself eating dirt:-0. I know that I get a kick out of that lil rathole. I really suspect you do to and wouldn't change anything about the place either. I'm glad that we can climb there, and think this was the best course of action for the reasons enumerated above. Really, this was the best way. Here's some recent "dirty cracks" which just got done and were not "shallow and discontinuous, shit for pro" and so did not get bolts. [insert gratuitous climbing shorts here] OK, maybe that one up above there is discontinuous and shit for pro, I've paused to put in a piece and I dare you to show me the crack there, but I didn't put bolts in on the FA. BUT, you can easily toprope this one at the Butte, while you can't do that at Rathole cause it's some ladies backyard and she doesn't want to see dirty bums popping up and down on her property all day. dirty dirty hugely dirty, 3 shots at cleaning it off, first piece is 20' up. Used a shovel to clean it. Most of these were FAed this summer. No bolts. Except we did 2 each for an anchor on the 1st and 4th one. I'm good climbing with no bolts. LO is good with. Those guys did a good job. My thoughts. BTW, hopefully Jimmy did the cleaning at that other area you had mentioned earlier. If not, remind him. Someone gave me crap for spraying the oak out there. Hopefully most of it's dead by now, or close to it. I hit the top, but that 40' high tree of poison oak you dudes whacked and tossed earlier at the base regrew in big and thick, so I hit it too. Some young lady says to me as I wander by: "What are you doing", I say "spraying the oak", she frowns and says " Does it have a disease"? Gotta get some work in, later.....

Aren't you almost driving right past Mt St Helens? I think thats an amazing and unique thing to be up there, and you could do it yourself sans partner on the way. (Get a permit.)

Nice call and nice list Tharsh. Probably best to hold off the disadvantage list for now?

I mentioned this earlier to you via email, but thought it should be tossed out there on this forum since the thread is still going. Look, it was never cool to bolt cracks and still isn't, and whether these are even cracks could be debated although there is an obvious spot or 2 for pieces here and there. I think it's a great place for the style of pro that is there. Bolts: which aren't too close together either. But thats me and here's why. I was there once with Ujahn and some guy pulled a head sized block and the rope came tight 2' or so off the deck when he fell - on a bolt. Ask U if you don't believe me. A) The cracks are shallow and discontinous, shit for pro. The rock is better now, but still relatively loose. Climb up and tap on the top on the left side for instance. On short routes, there is often only be 1 piece of pro between you and the deck, death is a close companion for a beginner. More so when the pro is so marginal. B) There are many people who climb there who are beginners. C) It is owned by the RR and people climb there with their tactit approval. IF, there was a single accident during which the authorities would close down the place, causeing the RR a major inconvienance, say yellow tape for 8 hours while the authorities investagated a death: I do not believe that the RR would ever allow anyone to ever go there again. D) At 30' high or what ever it is, if there were not bolts, you could probably expect plenty of accidents given what is noted above. I think those guy's did a great job and should be commended. Hey if you're climbing there tomorrow, how about clipping the poison oak in the center top area? Nice place to get a pump on your lunch hour isn't it, you should talk to Ujhan he use to live right near there and has a few more secret places you could get a quick bouldering pump on when you get bored of this rathole in 10 min or whatever it takes. (I say that affectionately, I like the place - (especially if it just rained in the summer, cause the butte is wet and this place dries off fast) Right in downtown LO, no shit dude. Secret. But that's for him to share. Not me.

Yup, wish I could look like that. Hey, way to go fer it on LB Preston! ____________________________________________________________________ To all: I hope you all have been asking folks out there about this issue. I have been less than happy with my efforts. [whining] It just seems difficult to get to people to interview them on their opinions. They're all down below climbing. Only a small percentage post here.[/whining] Anyway, if all of you can please keep asking everyone you bump into out there, and maybe we can hook up with a bunch of the regulars at the dash for trash Oct 6th as well, and do the deed at some point afterwards if we don't have resistance. I think I did the trash pick up 2 years ago or so and only knew maybe 2 or 3 people there, the rest seemed to be strangers who said that they climbed out there. Lot of older folks. They nabbed a huge amount of trash and lost so tires that year too. Nobody I've talked to has out and out opposed it yet, I've had some long discussions and explanations (and some short ones as well----->"Crackwarriuuusthat?"), but haven't been out there a lot either. Most people don't know where it is and have not heard of it. It's tucked back and way out of sight, you have to sketch out along the cliff edge to get to the top of it. Although it's hard to argue with those few people who have pointed out that adding bolts to the top of a route that hasn't ever had bolts violates the FA ethic, and makes it so that that new climbers do not have any incentive to see and learn how to set an anchor (if they can just clip bolts). However, I have not met that person exposing that viewpoint yet who actually knows this route. Once you let them know the full situation, they soften on it. Some of you have brought this up to me that we should start plotting the bolting strategy and we should discuss that some more before bolts actually get stuck in, cause as it's been noted by several folks, there's that other route right there to the East thats just getting a pile of moss on it from no use that could use the bolts too. (The former huge tree use to be the shared anchor for both routes and the crack was a backup, but the tree's now gone gone gone. ) I bought a bunch of Petzl Collinox on ebay dirt cheap, like 25 of the things. 10mil glue in bolts, and they'd be perfect on top of that little pinnacle that juts out in between the 2 routes. You could conceivably use a single length runner to drape it over each way to hit either route, and also if you led either you could just plop your ass down and clip. Perfect. I haven't actually measured it, I want the poison oak to finish dieing or Clif to pull it out first before I get out on that limb. Maybe we want to put in removable bolts first, and if things are not well received.....well, it's not a mess. I have some Steel Rawls 5 pc somewhere I don't want to be permenant anywhere and don't really have a use for them. If they survive, like the bolts on Glens route, we can take them out and put in the stainless glue ins later. The bolts 2 routes over next door to Crackwarrior, for instance, have never appeared to be been disturbed or replaced. Still steel, still rusty. The route next to that one - someone added a single stainless bolt maybe 8 years ago there and it's pretty much invisible from the top unless you get on that route, and then you see it (good placement but hard to get too unless you're leading), don't think thats been disturbed but don't know for sure. Looks the same to me. Things to think over. Someone should toss in a back up big-assed STAINLESS STEEL bolt by flaky old man and the rusty chains on top of silver bullet. Maybe I'd just better do that with the wonder drill instead of just keep mentioning it. Those things are rusty. Bad rusty. Rusty rusty with real rust. Probably be fine for 10 more years- but who can predict. PS, whomever is doing all the gardening/weed whacking by Silver Bullet: thanks! Was out bouldering on top with Tim H tonight, and we had checked and saw that ALL OF THE OAK by Espresso is now dead, that bunch has been there for years and years. No more. A small piece may remain by White Rabbit, but maybe not. The English Ivy right there by espresso could be trimmed back if someone wants to step up and clip it back. CLIFFFFFFF? Drill update: very disappointing that I can only get between 2-3 3/8 x 5" holes drilled on a full battery. I might have to give up and get a real drill.

I have a regular one every morning.

Obvious anger issues too. Hey, where did GLASSBONGHITS go off to?

When I was young, I could do a great Harp Seal imitation. Probably be confused with a Beluga Whale imitation now if I tried to pull it off now. Besides, with all you Canadians walkin around with clubs and all.....

2006 Honda Rebel Likes: *Make you look like a big boy on a big motorcycle. Dislikes: *250 cc. very small *tops out at 70 MPH before it's unstable. *Owned by wife.

Think of all the new people you'll have living in your basement trying to escape the chaos.

OMG I'D PAY $400 FOR A COAT IF THEY'D LET ME CLUB AND KEEP THAT BABY SEAL.

OK, but I might have to ignore all of you then. Bone, couple of the pdx after work group has met there. Should join us occasionally. Check yer e-mail's. You're welcome BTW. Also, I think it's because the rock is so friable. It you note the left side, I think the top of the left route may not be long for the world.... but it's a hard call.

Yeah, cool stuff too. Good on ya for not just letting but planning on letting the other folks pass. I love to fly up long routes, and getting behind anyone slow is....well....it's mentally very difficult. Thanks for sharing the trip too! Love to see pics.

Yeah, usually it goes downhill much faster, by now it should be either: A) A major political argument/discussion B) 4 posts of one liner jokes followed immediately by some harsh Personal mudslinging and veiled threats of physical violence. C) Bolt war argument thread. D) All of the above. Oh don't worry, theres still time for it to go to shit. Fuck there I go again, I can't believe I just posted the S word. Sorry!

Always nice to be on the classics!