billcoe

opps just saw this - classic. Just send in a check for these poor folks if you feel they are entitled. didn't think so. LOL

Check your blood pressure before you read this one. LOL, filing this under the "no good deed goes unpunished" file. Side note: no one was nailed to anything in the 2 years since Prole posted that story. http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/washingtons-jaw-drops-at-possibility-of-aig-lawsuit-85924_Page2.html Mo money mo money mo money......

Way to get on it dudes! Went hiking out that way yesterday...if you could call it that. Jazman bailed and stayed i the car LOL!. Noted that it was still below freezing (31 degrees) from Mt Pleasant/Ozone/Farside to right past Cape Horn still. Watch the roads if any one is driving out....close to ice.

Holy crap, now I get something to aromate my starter beard. End of 2012 photo by the lad base of Uprising. Crap it was cold, Ice anywhere there had been water. Good times.

What a story. Sorry to hear of it, so sad. They sound like some remarkable guys, the kind any of us would gladly tie in with any day. My condolences to friends and family who will no doubt be hurting at the loss of some good folks taken all too soon. I believe David posted here as Reinhart. http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/userposts/id/10480

Well, if you were down here the quick solution would be to hire a bunch of Mexicans. They do the work you don't want to do it's been said repeatedly.... ...the American way.

Was out today doing a lap with the boy and we watched this show. I think whats happening in this dance is that the Sea Lions are munching salmon and steelhead. They come blasting out of the water and slam the fish down to stun it, the gulls swing down to steal any morsel or strip of flesh that gets detached off the fish. Pretty sure.....although they in turn get snuffed by Oregon Fish and wildlife with much less fanfare. They're pretty voracious. Saw Timetraveler and Big Wall Rick formerly from BZcorners out there yesterday. Screwed up and hiked down with the pup to caretake, got invited for a lap and either had to toss the garbage out the pack to make room for the dog or abandon the thing. Which I considered and realized that that wouldn't fly with the wife since the dog is hers. ps, whomever got the branches we'd cut and left earlier and left on the trail near the top, good job and thanks. I had my Metolius haul sack, hiked all the way up to the top to get that stuff, and forgot to empty the trash out which I'd already picked up from below mostly water bottles tossed off from the hiking trail), so there wasn't much room left.

It doesn't seem unreasonable that you can wear them outside without puncturing them the first day or so. Are you expected to carry them and wear a 2nd pair of boots for approaches? Maybe they need a warning sticker "Not for outside use". I suspect they're made for more civilized European approaches. hah hah! Awwww, but so cute.

I slept in, got a massive cold and it's raining outside so I'll play. I don't know if I'd worry too much about it. It seems like the guys who are climbing hard assed bolt clipping sport stuff often don't seem to care all that much. Walk up aggro gully at Smith sometime see what folks have hanging off them....However, to flesh out your different draws for different things question: IMO, the brand choice for Blakes method is the Wild Country Heliums. Full sized, full strength full on sexy:-). I had 6mm shoulder slings I've doubled up and for those long routes Blake is describing, they work awesome. They don't make the 6mm anymore (the strength curve of a 6mm sling drawn on a chart looked like someone rolling a rock off a cliff, whereas the 8mm will work as good and last longer. I hear these doubled up draws called "trad draws", and you can haul them along on long gear routes and either use them as full length runners or doubled up as a draw to extend a piece or clip a bolt. Good stuff. If you go do any long route in Yosemite or Red Rocks, you'll quickly see that most lines wander and the rope drag you will get off a short draw is not something a rational being encourages or wants. Thus, longer is better. If you do a route like Epinephrine as an example, a mix of both is nice, there are both bolts where a draw works great, and wandering pitches as well. If you are feeling comfortable, clipping a bolt with a shoulder sling (seen over the shoulder photo below) only adds a foot or so to a potential fall, and you shouldn't be falling on these kinds of routes anyway. Here's Ujahn with a bolt clipped on Epi, could you imagine a fall in a chimney like this? You'd look like a ball in a Pachinko machine hitting both walls as you fell. Brutal. Don't causally fall on long routes or think it will be fine dogging on your gear. Not saying you can't fall, but it's something which needs to be well thought out and more for a guy on his game to chose to do. Ask Blake or anyone doing long routes, it's a different dynamic all the way around from a sport climbing area with (generally) lots of people and easy fast connection to the ground if something goes wrong. The casual attitude seen by most climbers at sport areas about falling translates poorly to gear placements in the outback. For a bolt clip up route like some of the stuff at Smith Rock (I don't do a lot of those), the doubled shoulder length draws do not work as good as just a quickdraw. They're fiddly and floppy, whereas a dedicated draw like the great clipping Petzl one Layton has posted above will rule. The Petzl biners clip well (very smooth) and the beefy draw is nice for grabbing, and won't need replacing anytime soon. I bought a rack of DMM Mambas because of the smoothness of the gates, and I love them, but not every "bolt clipper" I've been out with does. I've got the version wherein only one end is sewn in, not looking forward to replacing the sling. I also have the Wild Country Helium draws for just a lightweight sport draw. I carry them anytime I'm going on a hike to get to a climb. So light. The hooded nose will help keep the thing clipped in a swinging fall too. I got them because REI had them on sale for $10.83. 2 biners and the draw. $10.83 total. Wish I'd bought more:-) They're nice as the colors on each end give you a quick clue which end should be on the bolt. Light is nice, but the price includes shorter longevity. A quick check of 5.12 and 5.13 climbers will get you all kinds of draws, and if you ask them why they chose that brand, it's often cause they got a pro or a bro deal from Metolius or Black Diamond. Other than biner size, ie, no one likes the mini biners (like the Nano or Mini), most of them don't seem too particular in general, and will grab about anyones draws just randomly laying on the ground to siege a route it seems. There's exceptions, and I'd look at Chads suggestion on the Mammut: but I've never noticed him being all that particular out in the real world. Of course, that might just be a function of me not paying attention. No matter what you get, draws and biners wear out and need replacement. Fixed draws at some areas (with particulate matter in the vicinity) in particular. The wear in the biner in the photo below resulted in a rope that became 2 parts. The first draw/first bolt on a sport route seems to be the worst as the force of a fall is higher. You see this kind of wear on a first bolt fixed draw, don't clip it if you think you may pitch, replace at least the worn biner. Death biners. So to recap, it matters but little which draw you buy.

This thread is remarkably similar to this one. http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2606846;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;page=unread#unread As it's so similar with the magical KJUS discussed that let me repeat what I said over there: You need to be spamming the hunting and gun boards. Your camo KJUS looks to be just the stuff for either a Turkey hunter or a mall shooter. What this board needs is another good wind shirt argument discussion. The shit they are coming out with now defies belief. I was in the valley while back and TimetraverlSteve whips out something that resembled a minimalist womans thong...except with less frilly lace (sadly) and in the form of a windjacket and not a thong. Super lightweight ultra sheer Northface Windshirt score for the WIN! I later saw that Mt Hardware had a similar thing and got one. I stuffed it in my pocket despite it being warm on the valley floor when we started the 30 pitch day or whatever the hell it was. Later, as we were on Crest Jewel and the winds were hitting 20mph and butt assed cold in the late day shade, I could climb comfortably instead of shivering as was my former tradition. Great for fat assed lazy old guys who don't want an extra ounce of crap. Love it. Mine is called the Mountain Hardwear Ghost Whisperer Anorak jacket and clocks in at @ Weighs 1.87 oz. Ounces! Can't speak for what the Timtraveler had, but it amazed the heck out of me.

The best deals in Bend are in Redmond. Closer to Smith as well:-)

Ditto!

Ahhh, you got bolted routes up there? Schweet! And most impressive, sunshine! Woot! Haven't seen any of that down here for weeks. How high is that?

There were 100+ MPH winds at the coast which blew the roof off my house there sometime when the storm came though, maybe not the same day but still....Can't speak for Hood conditions Steve. You interested in doing a reroof? ..this is probably less than 1/2 a mile from where the dude was found Sweet picture Chris. That's what I'm saying. Fairly easy to avoid ....most of the time. When you can see it:-) Like on a day you took that great picture, hah hah. Is that in the fall, like October/November Chris? I tend to give little weight to news articles Steve. The few I've been associated with haven't come close to accuracy, even when I've talked slow and spelled it out slowly, literally spelling words). Yeah, my strategy, as a pup, was to look at White River Canyon intently in August/September. Try to get the last snow on the upper ridge if climbing. If there was no snow up there, then just camp and hike around the area. Then when I was up there later starting @ Jan/Feb and conditions were colder and snowier, try to mentally recreate where things where during the earlier warm days. It would just look so damned different. Chris's photo would be more of a soft pillowy rolling blanket. With lumps. More than once I just camped on the edge of WW canyon, smoked a bowl and looked at that light white blanket hiding the sure death underneath and bailed, feeling like a chickenshit at the time. Sometimes I'd take my pup, Tasha, up if I knew the weather was bad. My wife has a memory of us all going up and my bringing the dog back to the tent at o dark thirty and asking her to hold her so I could do a lap. She'd tried to follow and after an hour as light cracked, I'd catch a slight black glimpse out of sight. Finally stopped and saw her. LOL, what a great adventure dog:-) It's why I have more of an affinity to Cooper Spur I suppose although it's taken some folks I knew. Good climbers and good folks. No Crevasses there, better views and camping, but a potential fall. I'm feeling much more smug as I age in either case. Really, I live in a glass house here, can't be bitching about others. I wasn't there and I've been fortunate to both have smarter folks than me talk me out of stupidity, or when solo not get tagged. I've done so many stupid things and just got lucky that I can only shrug and say "right on for surviving it man". I remember one lap with a buddy bumping into John Petrosky and his dad on the way down. The upper slop of Wyeast was fresh deep snow: lots of it. I was thinking "Avalanche for sure", but looked down (way down!) shrugged and figured it would be a hell of a ride and went for it. I wanted to climb and we'd finally gotten to the steep fun part. Buddy followed. I was thinking "this is dumb" the whole time. Did it anyway. John and his dad, who at the time was one of the most experienced mountaineer's in the state, had bailed due to possible avalanche on the west face chute. I was embarrassed to have summitted in those conditions and felt stupid enough that I remember that feeling of being a dumbass to this day. That we never called SAR back then may be more of a reflection on the fact that cell phones had not been invented. ? I suppose that we all have similar kinds of skeletons in our closest if we really remember and consider it. Take care all, and walk a mile in the guys shoes. Or even 20 steps if it's a true whiteout:-)

...correction. There are crevasses in White River Canyon. Some sizable ones. When I was a pup, I'd go lap Wyeast from the lodge and at times could be quite mentally taxing crossing White River to the other side depending on what the snow conditions and how much visible light there was. Cough * solo * cough * stupid. I would think that this is the worst time of year, especially if you couldn't see. A bit of snow but not enough to make a blind pitch into the void safe...... Dude might have been up at the Wyeast headwall as that's about the elevation isn't it, and perhaps that was what he thought was the "cliff" he mentioned in the article. There are no crevasses there, but there are plenty below further down. None of us were there. There are a shitload of factors that undoubtedly weighed on his mind. Exhaustion, dehydration and physical factors which we, at our keyboards sipping a latte, may not be considering. I'd give the guy the benifit of the doubt on that. Starting up knowing the weather was coming in, on the other hand..... ...meh, glad he's safe. As far as endangering rescuers, I always (when young, no one ever calls me anymore, which is a good thing:-) ) enjoyed the invitation to head up in shite conditions. It's voluntary and good times.

Yeah, except no map. It would have ripped out of your hands and blown into the next county had you been able to get a hold of it to begin with. Hard enough to pull out a compass that's on a cord around yer neck and get a bearing in those conditions. None of us were there. That dude was, and a dying phone might even made a different outcome had it been charged. We all like to think what would we do if we were Joe Simpson, would I have cut the cord on my buddy.... meh. Better to be alive than not.

This place would be empty. We'd never hear from Trash again and my post count would be way down. LOL.

OK, we all know that there are no more sale ropes.....wait....WTF, check it out. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Edelweiss-Rocklight-9-8-mm-X-60-M-Dynamic-Climbing-Rope-Yellow-/150959511289?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2325e356f9 $80.57 free shipping. Edelweiss Rocklight 9.8 mm X 60 M Dynamic Climbing Rope Yellow They had a 70 meter listed for a low $93 bucks earlier which has been relisted Broadman!!! http://www.ebay.com/itm/Edelweiss-Rocklight-9-8-mm-X-70-M-Dynamic-Climbing-Rope-Yellow-/400341008951?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d362f0237

Clearly knot a hoax. In fact, you may be interested that I have actual scientific first hand visual proof? I mixed a bourbon soda, and when I went to the freezer there were NO ice cubes. N.O. Ice cubes. ZERO. Ergo....NOT a hoax! REPEAT: NOT A HOAX!!!!!! Cubes B gone! Clearly it's too warm for them, they melted and there was run off. There can't be any alternative explanation. BTW, didn't we already discuss this earlier? I mean, extensively and for years?

Nice Steve! Woot! Community Service request. Anyone hiking to the top, the rest of the loose branches we cut on the service day are still stacked on the trail near the top. I didn't talk to Ranger Karl on the who what when where or why (he was going to have prisoners haul that stuff off and it was pouring rain and we were beat that we left it). BUT, if you feel like doing a nice service for the park folks, hike up with a haul bag and stuff a bunch in. He didn't want to toss them over the rail or I could have done that myself.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/03/business/media/david-oliver-relin-co-author-of-three-cups-of-tea-dies-at-49.html?smid=tw-nytimesworld&seid=auto Probable suicide.

Nice. No info here. How high are they Steve? Is that tunnel anything worthwhile? Looks enchanting. Maybe run it by Tim Olsen, he's the encyclopedia. Someone once told me that they mentioned a "new" cliff they found to Tim, and once Tim got the location fixed in his mind came up with a name and who had been climbing there B4. I know that there's "secret" cliffs not in his new book. But other than the 2 locations I know of that Tim knows I don't know much more than that. In either case, he'd get a kick out of hearing of it.

Well, I wasn't going to weigh in but here goes. A compass sounds like the schizz and you should have one on you, but are near (I said "near") worthless in a total shitstorm. The problem is that there is nothing to fix on, and as you can't even see your feet, the strong sideways gusts you always get make you wonder if you are heading south, or if you are only believe that you are heading south but are actually looking due south and being blown 3 steps east for every one south. You can't tell. Since you are stumbling because you can't see the ground and every little dip catches you unawares, you don't trust anything. Including the compass. It's easy to get blown off course, and you know it's happening for certain, yet you don't know the extent of it. Most people that I've seen over the years get into a winter shitstorm like Mr Kish, wind up in White River canyon. As the canyon goes a bit kittywampus and has a steep entry point, anyone looking at a compass thinking they are on the south Timberline heading is surprised and confused when they hit that entry slope. And often folks will tell you that their first encounter with that slope is that they take a step and as they don't see it, they roll down the thing in the soft snow. Now the wind is whipping the soft snow sideways over the lip, they've rolled towards the east, they can't see shit, and it makes it even worse for visibility and adds to the confusion level. Who knows where he was. Kish says he encountered a cliff, the only real cliff up there may be Mississippi Head, but that's a lower elevation. So who can say. A GPS would have helped the most, I understood that the only GPS he had was his phone. I used to carry an altimeter as GPS wasn't invented yet, but truthfully, looking at one when you can't see your feet or identify the 2 foot indentation you just tumbled into, tells your location incrementally only a bit more. Having a buddy can help. My buddy Bob and I hiked down from Silcox to Timberline one shitstorm and he got a frostbitten face from looking at the compass every 100 steps or so. I was just trying to stay within 2 feet of him as he had the compass:-) Periodically we'd stop to reaffirm to each other that we were going the right way. Nice to have a trustworthy partner. The big issue is that dude shouldn't have headed up knowing that shit weather was heading in. Period. I've done it. Maybe you've done it - we've all done dumb stuff. That was dumb. The frostbite story above was a from a guides meeting we had in the hut. As I was descending I was thinking, "this was dumb". There was like 12 or so of us up there overnighting and we could have easily lost a guide -perhaps several, on the short hike down to Timberline. It could have been me had Bobs back disappeared for more than a couple seconds. He wouldn't have heard me yelling, you could barely stand up and you couldn't see your feet. As I've gotten old and soft, it's easier to stay where it's warm, so I don't want this to be perceived as a criticism. I'm just sayin. I've been up on and summited that Mt ever month of the year. We all go out into some stuff sometimes and it's stupid to do it in winter when a world class storm is heading in unless you are looking for an extreme challenge, in which case, don't call for a rescue. Best to all, an congrats on the #1 thing of importance to Kish or anyone in that space. Survival.

Chalk is way overdone, and should be the one of the last things to add to your quiver. Somehow everyone starts with it anyway. Sadly.[/end preaching] I tend to not use chalk on easier routes or in the desert, but do have a use for a trad chalkbag anyway. If you are planning on getting outside on longer routes, a "Trad chalkbag" (my term) might be looked at and this is why. "Trad Chalkbags" have a zipper on it that leads to a small pocket. Put inside the pocket these 4 items: 1st) A small lighter. Smallest you can find. Bic makes reliable stuff. It is smaller than the regular (but still small) Bic lighter. Don't be fetching it out all day long to spark doobies or it might be out of fuel for when you get overnighted far from the car in cold weather and wish you had it working to start that small fire that will save your life. 2nd) A half a piece of paper towel (aka discount toilet paper that will double as firestarter). I like the paper towel as they are strong. If you wish to go totally minimalist, just put in a single square of toilet paper in there. But don't come whining when that breakfast burrito you wolfed down in the am despite smelling funny goes bad on ya and your fingers wind up smelling bad. 3rd) A small lightweight knife (or alternatively, a razor blade wrapped in tape. 2 words only: Trango Piranha....or is it Razor ... Blade? Hmmm. Both will cut webbing at belay stations or in case you need to cut your partners rope AKA Joe Simpson style, but the Trango has an edge for slicing small sticks and twigs to make fine kindling. The razor blade comes wrapped in a stiff paper that you can burn. Once you take the tape off:-) 4th) A lightweight emergency headlamp. Black Diamond has a small 30 gram monster called the Ion (OK, about an ounce) that will beam out pretty good for 20 meters they say. The little batterys cost almost as much to replace as the light, which is cheap to start with. In fact, all my neices and nephews and kids got one a few Christmas's back. The price you pay will long be forgotten the first time you almost shit your pants out in the dart till you remember that you have it stashed in your bag. Be aware that they have a parasitic leak, meaning that eventually they will die, so reverse teh battery if that's an issue, which is bullshit to have to redo when it's dark out, but pick one. A) dead battery when you need it B) Pain in the ass to configure but working.....This little thing is to augment another headlamp, not to replace it. Or for emergencies. My kid had one in his chalkbag and he and a group of friends got benighted in Hells canyon on a climbing trip. They had one headlight between all of them and a bad steep trail. It was the POS I'd bought the kid, an old early model Ion AND IT STILL HAD BATTERY LIFE! It was enough to make it safe and helped out a lot. The boy listens a bit closer when the old man liberally rambles incoherently now. Sierra Trading post has them for $10 now. http://www.sierratradingpost.com/black-diamond-equipment-ion-headlamp-led~p~3539r/?utm_source=GooglePLAs&utm_medium=PaidShopping&utm_term=Black_Diamond_Equipment_Ion_Headlamp_-_Led&utm_campaign=PCGOOGLEPLA2&codes-processed=true Plan on paying about that to replace the little POS unusual 6V battery inside. I had bought that Arc'Teryx bag that has the zipper for my boy, the 50p (REI had it for $24.93, which is too damned much $ unless it's a gift I suppose) works great for him and he loves it. The Metolius, Wild Country are also high quality. The Red Chili, however, leaks dust into the zippered compartment. Note that all of those companys also make non-zippered bags as well. The total weight of all those items will be less than if you just took some of the chalk out, and it will be much more important in an emergency. ta ta!