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Thank you Jim! I look forword to what ever you can find out

okay well then I will laugh and think of you and at last understand

is this what we are having for dinner Iain???

LMAO!!!!! I wonder how many people we could knock down together!!!!

you have more access to this kind of information than do the rest of us... NETWORK MAN!!! bring us back real information!!!!

LOL I think dru and I would ski well together after someone else taught me how to stand up

DANG Ummmmm I would need lessons

NO WAY SMART ASS!!! that would require that I actualy work threw my spelling issues... I don't see that happening

WA. you choose not to turn quick enough in north portland and all of a sudden you are in washington :EEEK: ( if you were asking me )

so Jim can you enlighten us as to how cave rock was chosen and what the exact reasons are that it is wrong for women in specific to climb this peice of rock>>>

excelent point JayB I could live with that as well.

DEAL!!! I will let you know next time we are up there... Jk and I uhhhh accidently went to vancuver just saterday

thank you Iain

In MY NEVER TO BE HUMBLE OPINION there is a gigantic diffrence between helping real people get out of a sticky situation and risking your life on what you thought was a person to find that it was rag stuffed clothing... I will forgive you if you take me to the movie oh, I guess we better take jk too

Have you ever worked for a volenteer fire department or anything like that??? I would be interested in if Iain and his crew apriciate it when people pull shit like this??? usualy I like what you have to say, but you are pissing me off

I'm not saying people shouldn't practice.... Just that those folks train verry hard for what they do, (my god father was a fireman for 30 years) And they don't need *HELP* figuring out how to train themselves. Had there been a real emergacy in that area at that time and the rescue units did not know that the fake one was fake someone could have died needlessly.

stupid beyond reason... I am with cavey, save the rescue for the real thing!

DFA, I am NOO republican. And I would just as vehemitly oppose drilling for oil any where.

If they get cave rock with no comprimise... it will only be a matter of time before alll climbing areas are taken from us. It is not size they seem to be after, but power. Please read the supertopo thred on the same issue. I found it verry enlightening. eventualy DFA, you will have to choose between believing in rockclimbing or whatever it is you want to call the rest of it.... your political beliefs or whatever. Most especialy as a sport climber.

Well said PP I don't want to have to break the law to pratice my religion.

DFA... would you feel the same if it were SMITH???

DFA... I think you missed my point. I have studied some, although I am hardly an expert... and that is part of the reason I was drawn to climbing. From what I learned, the rock will take care of it's self and it actualy goes against the native religions that I have looked at to asume that any human would know what is better for it. There are many people being born now who follow the good red road. There are many ansessters alive now in bodies of diffrent collours to be the rainbow warriers.

Does my 1/32 cherakee blood give me rights to climb where ever the fuck I want???? I don't think any culture needs to be assimilated. But I still want to climb. All Land is sacred and realy if you study the culkture, they did not believe in owning land... so please make it make sense to me that if you can not posses something how is it that you can SAY or DETERMIN what otheres can nor can not do there. MHO if the rock did not want to be climbed it would kick everyone off and any one who climbed there would die.

from my experience and from what I have learned... you can not possibly counsle some one if you have no idea what they are going threw. It is a good thing that most counslers have been threw counseling... as a matter of fact it is an intensive and required part of most Masters programs

perhaps then you need to take the test again, and try not to over think the questions. I have taken this many times... and all but one time come up with the same profile....