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Photos of the Klenkenator are aid.

All that bit about Leeper hangers, well, let's just contemplate this old portrait of Peter Puget as Jonathan Swift and cogitate a little bit...

How about a tag team wrestling match between Leavenworth & Portland? Der vs. Duh, the match of the decade!

[video:youtube]

This thread only exists to mollify Lost Cam Kenny and make him feel that there is fairness in the world.

As a bonus, the dark rusty Leepers are much easier for aging eyes to spot way out there on slab climbs. Up on the Glacier Point Apron for instance, dull stainless hangers 40' away just disappear into the background dazzle. Now a Leeper, that stands out. Pity that even Ed Leeper wouldn't install a Leeper hanger these days.

Ain't-cha proud of yerself? by the way, it's "Klewin". Raindawg, why exactly to you feel compelled to reply like a snide jerk? I think scrubbing up Clean Love and returning it to circulation is a positive thing, as is replacing any number of rusty quarter inch bolts, and I fail to understand why you think being rude is cool.

WHERE IS AN ADMINISTRATOR WHEN YOU NEED ONE! THIS MODERATOR FAILURE SHALL NOT STAND. I NEED AN MLU.

For some things, there's just no way MANzama can compete with Portland (or Corvallis, Eugene, whatever).

To address the question of what to do with this thread in general, its still unclear to me what you (Kenny) think should happen with this thread. 1: Ship it to Spray? That's what usually happens to IB & bolt war topics, largely because the general behavior sinks to that level almost immediately. If I put this thread in Spray, the amount of derogatory spray towards PDX climber behavior would go up exponentially, and I don't think that's particularly desirable. 2: Lock it? Well, that would shut off debate and curtail any further rebuttal anyone might want to offer. The topic is a bit of a troll, but it actually sounds like something that came out of a discussion by a bunch of climbers about their perceptions of the climbing scene in the Columbia Gorge. Lance might be fishing, but I don't think he's insincere. It doesn't strike me as something that should be locked. 3: Delete it? Surpisingly little is ever deleted here, mostly spam threads for free Ipods and inappropriate advertising attempts. The occasional abusive post gets clipped, and a boatload of ghoulish outsider crap got dumped from the Hood accident a few years ago, as well as a lot of stuff about a certain fraudulent speed hiker, but this thread doesn't really seem to meet that standard, regardless of whether your feelings are hurt. Lance is blunt and uncomplimentary, but he's not abusive or threatening. Many of you say far more rude and brutal things to Joseph routinely. Having spent a fair bit of time looking at this thread, when I should be out working in the garden or replacing some anchors, it seems to me that the best option is to just leave it here. If any of you all think something different, make your case, I'm persuadable.

Excuse me, you were the one publicly screaming (that's what the All Caps approach is routinely associated with) at me for not policing your forum. I was completely unaware of this thread; I don't know if you've ever noticed but I moderate 18 different forums and they don't all get the same amount of attention from me. If there is something going on here that you think requires official intervention then you would be best advised to hit the the "notify" button, and I will receive a notification via email. I am no one's deity and I am not watching everything all the time. I get bitched at for closing threads, not closing threads, deleting posts, not deleting posts, and for generally not forcing other people to behave better than the individuals who are complaining about them. Now you're bitching at me for not being omniscient and babysitting this forum as if you were all a bunch of three year olds likely to poke each other's eyes out? I didn't call you a bitch because I was out of control, rather it was an accurate descriptor for your childish behavior. Please note that the entire country of Canada only gets one forum, and no, there are a lot more mountains in the Cascades in Washington than in Oregon, even more so if you only count mountains of significant interest for climbers. I had supported the notion of a rock climbing specific forum for Oregon in response to user requests to keep the cragging stuff from being buried in Hood TR's. What happened was the admins created this forum, which I think came about partly due to all the Beacon bickering that was going on elsewhere. What might make sense is to instead add a Mt Hood forum, and let the non-gorge non-hood rest of oregon have the Oregon Cascades forum for itself. Conversely, you can discuss crags & post TR's in the Rock Climbing forum which is not geographically specific.

Now that's a funny riposte!

Old news Josh, its been that way for years. Try using that name on Supertopo, you'll get the same result.

Oh shut up bitch. If you think that yelling and screaming like that gets you what you want, then your momma done brought you up wrong. This forum was built just so you all had your own little sandlot. This forum is sort of a special case, and you PDX people engage in climbing related spray pretty freely in here. I don't know if you've noticed, but if you're not a logged in registered user of this site, you can't even see that this forum exists. So, while Lance is absolutely trolling you all, and it's a fine bit of spray at that, it's not all that different from what you say to each other. Do you folks really want it moved to Spray? I don't babysit this forum like I tend to do in the Climbers Board. If you need help, I'd urge you to pretend this is an MLU and push the "notify" button in the lower right corner, and I will mount a rescue.

Tentative plan is May 6th, details to follow

Kevbone is a resident of Washington

I heard he's having a three-way with Dru and Amber. I think Chaps is going to video it and post it on Youporn.

An IB thread is just like masturbation, but much less fun. You already know how its going to end. The OP was looking for info, he got it, job done. Anyone can fill in the rest of the thread, since we've heard it all before time and again. Kevbone tell people to climb it before they have an opinion. Joe will call it an abomination. Raindawg will show up and call for its removal. Choada will make fun of Raindawg's profession. Blah fucking blah. There is nothing new to be said about that route, and all that hot air people spew just contributes to global climate change. I don't think the mods or the admins here at this site consider it a "chat room" but would rather that it serve a more useful purpose. This site is an important resource and record for alpine climbing in the northwest. The endless bitching about how what I like is the bomb and what you like is such worthless dreck that my mom wouldn't piss on it if was on fire absolutely hinders it from serving any such purpose in the rock climbing world. More than 300 new routes in the brand new Leavenworth guide, how many were reported here? I'm pretty sure the answer is zero. Vapid chat is corrosive to content, but lots of people like it. That's why we have a Spray Forum. If you wanna repeat yourself some more on the subject, please, have at it in Spray. If you wanna whinge about the impingement on your rights and freedoms, you can do that here too, but if you want to do something about it, go start your own website.

Oh, as A Bertram Chandler wrote, "This is Liberty Hall, you can spit on the mat and call the cat a bastard." Feel free to hold forth, however this forum is the proper home for what even the OP concedes is a spray troll. Didn't belong in the Climbers Board, so I moved it here, where all can say any damn thing they want. The Climbers Board should be a little more like visiting your Grandmother's Parlour, and even in jest, bolt conversations require sawdust on the floor and a shot of whiskey.

I hate it when that happens. Which is to say I've done it more than once also.

Kev the route's name is Classic Crack, same as the one at Broughtons which was put up later. No quotation marks needed. It's 5.8 I think?

I was leading a pitch about 2/3 of the way up The Mouth on Glacier Point Apron in Yosemite during the big quakes there, 1980 or so? The crack I was in seemed to scream, but nothing came down near us. Across the way, a railroad freight car fell out of the ridge of Grizzly Peak, turned a bunch of Ponderosa Pines into dust, and plowed into the Happy Isles Trail Center. We could hear folks screaming for help down that way. We finished the route. There were a bunch of folks climbing that day, a buddy was on top of the Folly after doing the Good Book. The Folly is a 4 or 5 pitch tall flake, and the anchor at the top is bolts on the main wall above the top of the flake. He watched the tip of that flake move from side to side, and the party below watched their cams flex in an out. El Cap was covered in bailing people afterwards, and there were lots of rockfalls all over the valley. Amazingly, I don't think anyone died. The descent gully on Middle Cathedral was totally swept, if anyone had been in it they would be dead for sure. We descended that way from E Butt of Middle later that week, and there were impact scars all over, every square foot in places. The small trees had had their bark stripped off by the passing of all the rockfall, and everything was covered in grit. It was as spooky a descent as I've ever made. There was a substantial aftershock too, but it happened earlyish in the morning. I got bounced around on the ground, waking me up as the VW van next to me rolled back and forth and the trees in the Pines campground all swayed. Mt St Helens was acting up at the time too, so the weather report at the kiosk in Camp 4 read, "Thunderstorms, Earthquakes, Possible Volcanic Ash"

I'd assume Ryan's Wall is in honor of Ryan Triplett who died in an unknown and unwitnessed accident while soloing at Goat Wall in Mazama in 2008. Thread here: link Patrick, thanks for posting the topo here in spite of the "sport climbing is neither" crowd. Stout looking crag.

Oh, this thread is so GLBT. That's a sandwich of a different order.

What makes you think that matters? Nice modest proposal btw