Off_White

Because there's just me, and I'm not paying attention. Has there ever been a Beacon thread that doesn't become Spray? Everyone else wishes you guys would just go on about health care, global warming, or proper bolt spacing. Thumbs up to markd, tyler, and anyone else trying to remind ya'll that there are other places to climb.

Well, the first five pitches may not really count as 1st winter ascent, but it's sort of already happened! TR

No sweat 'bone, most folks who've been here awhile have done it too, without drunk posting the internet would be a little more boring. Hope you're doing well and the gym in Ashland is doing alright too.

Just to be clear, there is no move afoot to require such a thing on this board; as Bug pointed out, traffic would plummet and people would have much less fun. We could make a special ethics forum that requires real names, and that would be the only place those "debates" are allowed. If everyone is as opposed as all you avatar wielders claim, it might finally do away with all that repetitive unpleasantness even if it doesn't induce greater civility and personal restraint in the bait and insult game.

This is just like being drunk dialed at 1:30 in the morning by an ex-girlfriend. I always liked you Lambone, but this sort of makes me wonder why. Anyway, fucker this and fuck you that, and off to Spray it goes. There's only one individual who has posted here, he who's name must not be said, who railed on Chad Kellogg. I don't recall any trash talk about the man, but maybe I wasn't paying attention.

Sorry if you took it that way Pat, that wasn't my intent. The TR's are pretty much the best thing about this board, and you've contributed a lot of fine content, thanks.

Beeline was always a favorite, did Ben Burnham's BS bolted station in the middle of the first pitch crack get removed?

Interestingly, many of the most talented climbers who've posted on this site use their real names, either a first name or a full name. They don't usually bother with the bolt blabber either. Most of the people doing first ascents of rock routes in this region don't post on this board at all, or have only made very rare appearances.

You're being obtuse Pat. It's my assertion that many people act more like dicks when their words are not linked to their everyday life. You'll find corroboration in the comments section of every online version of a daily paper, and I think you'll find ample evidence here as well. I do indeed think real names might make a difference in the tenor and quality of a climbing ethics discussion, but of course I might be wrong. I'm unaware of that being tried anywhere before. I'd accept the notion that perhaps Tvash and G-Spotter using their real names to post might indeed have no effect in what they write online, but I bet Tvash says things online that he'd never say to a stranger's face. Lots of people here do that, and I know I've done it too, so I don't mean to imply that I'm some paragon of virtue.

Raindawg, you've outed yourself by promoting a book you've written. In what way is Mattp inappropriately outing you by citing information that you yourself have released on this website? Yes, when the purpose is spray, it doesn't matter what you call yourself. My point is that if you want to talk about something like climbing ethics in a forum that isn't spray, anonymity is a hindrance to civil behavior and actual discussion. By all means, remain anonymous and blabber all you want on the subject, but don't complain to me when your important topic gets flushed to Spray.

That's damned good news, thanks for the update Dane.

You're uniformed, I'm the one who gets the complaints from people when they've had their real names attached to their avatars against their will. People do actively want to prevent having what they say here attached to themselves in the real world. You, like G-spotter, and any number of durable persistent sprayers, are only thinly removed from their flesh and blood identities, and the connection can be found by anyone who really wants to spend the research time. Still, you, like Raindawg, are anonymous to anyone who drops into the site without a lot of history. Logical fallacy or not, I believe this is the single biggest reason bolting threads ALWAYS degrade into anonymous abusive shit slinging character slurring debacles and get shipped to Spray. There has never been such a thread that has made it to page three without someone saying some kind of crap that they'd never say if their mommy was in the room to ask them, "Why would they say that to another person? Didn't I raise you better?" If you're afraid someone is going to track you down and throw a brick through your window because of something you said on the internet, you'd best reexamine the way you treat other people.

Right, so Bill O'Reilly's opinion on climate change is as valid as any climatologist with an advanced degree. Like it or not, climbing has always had many of the aspects of a meritocracy. Do you think that Alan Watts, who's argued climbing ethics with a variety of very talented climbers face to face, was wrong to decline to debate online with some anonymous internet troll? Just because the internet gives everyone a stump doesn't mean that all opinions are equal. If you don't care enough about something to stand behind it, who gives a rat's ass what you think?

Well Bill, that would mean everyone would have to be accountable for their opinions and the things that they say, just like in real life. Frankly, I think its impossible to have an adult conversation about anything of substance (like climbing ethics, politics, or religion) that is the least bit controversial without that accountability. It might not even be possible with everyone just being who they really are, but 8 years of cc.com have proven that it's certainly impossible without it. And I don't mean just stating your name once in a post in some thread, but registering under your real name, if nothing for the purpose of talking about things that really matter to you. By all means, keep your spray avatar if that's what floats your boat. I also understand that there are all sorts of things in many people's lives that they would just as soon keep separate from their work life: co-workers, clients, or supervisors. But really, using a false identity to talk about matters of import discounts your opinion by about 85%. For the record, Off White does serve as a real name: it's what most of my friends and family call me, I get mail under that name, cash checks with that name, and have had most of the few first ascents I've made recorded under that name as well. My drivers license does say Douglas White, and some people do prefer that name for a variety of reasons, but Off White is not as anonymous as many might assume.

Paranoia the destroyer [video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9ObLGRq33o

Oh please, feel free to start any number of Spray threads about sketchy ads on Craigslist, I agree that its an amusing topic, but it was correctly pointed out by the spiritual leader of Spray that this thread is about helping out Redpoint catch the thief/get their gear back, and I don't think Eric reads up on all the threads he's posted everywhere about it, so its more effective to send your discoveries to him directly.

I reckon Marc has plenty of responses to consider, lets let this thread run out and go argue about Oregon or whatever elsewhere please. After a certain number of pages it all turns to spray anyway, and I'd rather not ship this thread out of the forum.

Hugh, I have a dog that disproves that statement.

Outstanding, thanks for the TR

Good point, perhaps the thing to do is send info on suspicious stuff to the Redpoint guy via email rather than have a validity gossipfest here. This is the email address for Redpoint: contact@redpointclimbing.com

Oh, there's always room for movement. We're at the highest health care cost in the world for the 37th best care and only mediocre longevity. We could always pay a little more for a little less and die a little sooner. Yuck it up buddy, its likely your children won't have as long a lifespan as you do.

Yup, can't argue with that.

Naw Dick, the Bug's okay. He holds forth on what matters to him, but he usually doesn't loudly proclaim that whatever he doesn't do is invalid. Photobombing, the subject of this thread, is not so cool. I really liked the photo Choada Boy posted in that thread, and the implication of comparing that vast open pit to the horrors of bolting is pretty valid, but pictures that large are inserted with the intent of making a thread unreadable, and that's not so cool. Bill's big sun (also adopted by others) is not quite so massive, but its still intended to mess with page formatting and load times...

But hey, whatever you do, take some pictures and tell us the story! Oh, yeah, and have fun too.

I'm with Joseph on this one, our hobby is not the most important thing in the world. Bird closures, especially ones based on observation (like in the Tieton area) and what the birds actually do, are a fact of life.