Off_White

Hey Wayne/Colin/Marko: Brilliant usage of the amazing solid weather pattern and a team of good climbers. I think the group photos in the gallery just emphasize what a giddy outing this was, kudos to all. What do you say to the idea of repeating the slideshow at Rope-up for those of us unlikely to make the earlier show?

No Caveman, it would only be acceptable if you called it Soylent Green.

FS, she caught flack? Umm, aren't we in spray here? This is an argument and she opted out, as is her right. Do you think I expect to change your or Caveman's mind? Damn, I'm not that . BTW, a big to Fairweather. The 12-year old thing is a bit of a hoary red herring, since its understood we are discussing consenting adults, but his ethical position regarding an individual's right to freedom, even (perhaps especially) in the face of personal repugnance is laudable. Tell ya what Fairweather, you become a member of the ACLU and I'll register Libertarian.

I'm a gang of one, caveman.

The "what god wants" argument is used all over (in many religions) to justify all kinds of shit. I believe it's a rather popular argument in the Middle East these days. There's also a few of us atheists out there who would just as soon you kept your god to yourself. Caveman, you stated earlier that you don't believe in it and shouldn't have to pay for it (and I believe Sphinx seconded you on the sentiment). In what way do you pay for it? Do you mean if gay marriages got the same tax breaks that heterosexual marriages get? Ever know anyone who got married for the tax benefits? In fact, the Congressional Budget Office has declared that over 20 million couples pay MORE taxes by being married than they would as individuals. Ever hear of the Marriage Penalty? And hey, I have to pay for things I don't agree with all the time, what gives you special dispensation to pick and choose which particular programs your tax dollars go to? Kids shouldn't have to deal with having gay parents? Give me a break, the range of options for children to ostracize or torment each other is unlimited. Too tall, too short, too fat, too skinny, too smart, too stupid, too christian, not christian enough, black kids even get it from other black kids for being too dark AND too light. Are the children of gay parents more prone to emotional damage than the children of drunks or bitter divorces? While you may think its wrong, studies do not support your conclusions. You also argue that if they should have kids, they would be able to breed. So, then its okay for lesbian couples to have children? Artificial insemination is no big deal, heterosexual couples use it all the time. Your attempts at rational justification completely unravel when closely examined. Of course, your basic position of "they're not like me, I don't like them, they should be discriminated against" is irrefutable, its your opinion and you're entitled to it. What it doesn't confer is any kind of lock on "the truth." Finally, here's a dictionary definition for bigot: One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

You ignorant rat-ass bigots can eat shit. If we can let drooling hydrocephalic louts like you speak and breed, people should be allowed to marry whoever they feel like.

The man is a twit, the worst president of my life. To quote from the article: "On the other hand, that does not mean that someone like me needs to compromise on the issue of marriage," he added. So, if he doesn't marry another guy I think that would cover it, no need for him to compromise. What does GW Bush think, freedom means being free to tell someone else what they are allowed to do with their private life? Gay, straight, or bi, that should all be irrelevant. Unless its someone you find attractive, it just doesn't matter.

Naw Petey, I knew you'd get it, and there's more than a few other codgers around here who could get the reference as well....

Awww Dru, you're such a hard bastard. Everyone knows the real deal is in Tenino... PS: sorry DFA, no knowledge offerings. How close is it to Mt. Hood, might Iain know something about it?

Are you sure he doesn't mean that guy in black belaying the hottie in orange prana in the squeeze chimney? I think it's DFA and his legendary spouse.

Excellent! thanks for the story.

And in today's top headlines, Generalisimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

They fit on my son's 12-1/2 mtn boots. I think I'm gonna buy him a pair so I can have mine back.

Thanks for the research Lowell. A friend of mine's mother is in the same Quaker meeting as Jules Eichorn, who was a Sierra pioneer of similar vintage, and one of those folks I'd assumed long gone.

I'm an unabashed westy fan, cabinets and all. I've got an 84, and its been just fine, outside of wildlife impact, which hurt the deer a hell of a lot more than me. The refrigerator (NOT a cooler) is great, running on 12v, 120v, or propane, and I don't mind the 15 gallon water tank plumbed through a sink at all either. The living room on wheels is really nice, especially when the weather sucks. Its a bit underpowered, but I'm used to VW's, and it seems to cruise down the highway nicely, though I imagine I drive it too fast. The watercooled engine finally provides what all prior VW vans lacked: real heat, and the ability to defrost a wintertime frozen windshield. The lack of AC does really suck. While some do come with it, the interior volume is so huge and the engine so small that it just doesn't work, so be sure and avoid it. Its also a relatively noisy vehicle inside, especially when you have the windows down because you have no AC. On the otherhand, the turning radius is amazing, and its a pretty nimble vehicle for the size.

Then I suppose if conditions were shitty it would be pocket poo.

It wasn't, but now it is.

That's the way to go. You've got 10 feet of steep snow just north of Triumph Col, the rest is dead easy. I even saw a guy with just tennies do alright, but personally I appreciated having crampons.

I only have experience with the camelback I was given a number of years ago. It has a 100oz bladder, which seems like a lot of water, but I'm always surprised when it goes dry. Two of us drained in on Triumph, and I'll drink the whole thing on a day long approach as well. The pack it came with has these floppy little straps that are kind of a bugger to put on and off if you're carrying it as a pack on a long rock route and swap it back and forth at belays, but it can be alright if you just leave it on all the time. Often as not I stuff the bladder into my larger pack in some makeshift fashion and make do. A couple pluses and minuses about the system: Its just not as satisfying, for me, to suck on a tube rather than gulp out of quart bottle. On the otherhand, I definitely drink more water with a bladder, which on the whole is a good thing for both comfort and performance. Its really gross when the tube fills with green algae, mostly because you can see it. Also, when out using the lifts at a ski area, my day lasts much longer if I'm sipping water on the chair, because I just don't stop to eat or drink otherwise. Its a drag when your tube freezes up. As far as specifics about current hydration packs, I'm sure others will supply you with more precise beta.

That was great. Looks a little like ChrisT's work, they should give her the job.

Its much more trad

Well, thats what I saw anyway

I did this ridgeish thingy on the the south end of the southernmost towerlike formation? I think it might be easy enough to solo?

You can do a great wide stem chimney between the pillars at the concrete version of Stonehenge near Maryhill, but topping out is tough. But really, Yosemite has some great examples. I don't know that there is anything tougher on this earth than a 5.9 chimney, except maybe for a 5.8 chimney.