Off_White

Yeah, I'd have to say that I'd take women over guns and motorcycles.

The former free camping zone below the Chief springs to mind. Now it's regulated, has proper sites, shelters, outhouses, and costs money, but in the late eighties it was squalid free camping with a fair bit of garbage, the surrounding woods covered in toilet paper blooms, and piles of foul smelling char and wire from steel belted radial bonfires. The free camping along the south shore of the Tieton River is often a garbage strewn wasteland, I spent a solid half hour cleaning up garbage at the last site I stayed in there on Memorial Day weekend. Free things are cool, but usually only if most people don't know about it. Humanity en masse can be a pretty ugly thing.

Yeah, I heard Conrad Anker was going to ruin it for us all before Big Lou stepped in to assert his turf rights to be the one to do it first.

I don't think the Yoder/Ford guide is out of print. Here's one place with it for sale online: link

Oh, I don't think he's talking about you personally (with regards to being protected or worshiped here), but rather the meta-conversation about soldiers and the whole "support the troops" mantra (in the US in general). I don't really know what your specific job is or what exactly it entails, but from what I recall when you joined up, you're some sort of ranger/seal/elite unit sort, not a basic enlistee. I don't think you're all that scrutinized, at least from a public or media standpoint. I have no idea what your oversight from your service is like though, it'd be interesting to know more about that though. Are you subject to more review and scrutiny than a contractor working for a private security firm? edited to try and make my first paragraph more clear

Oh, and I'll second Bug's succinct opinion. Some people gripe about this thread, but I think you've started one of the more interesting threads on this topic in a long time. While you do throw in an "idiots" here and a "cum dumpster" there, I do think you're arguing at a pretty high standard and I find the things you're writing well worth reading.

what? do they gain 30 IQ points before they are killed? be more carefull what you say. You're misinterpreting. Prole isn't implying that soldiers are morons in special ed, but rather that one isn't to say anything critical, pointed, or in any way less than respectful about them anymore than, say, the participants in the special olympics. His rant is about the fetishization of the military, the notion that one's job choice somehow puts one into a special category that is beyond reproach. The myth that joining the military is ennobling is really just a swell recruitment tool. If you take care to not take any of his jibes personally, the gist of his argument is valid and worth considering, especially since you're willing to take the time to consider anyone's points if they're arguing sincerely and with thought behind it.

Let's be honest. Scott is trying to make his point, just like Nancy Pelosi.

I dunno, sounds to me like the man is willing to believe the dog and pony show represents everyday life. How many Saturday markets in Indiana have been bombed in the last few months?

Yeah Sobo, for any of us who've spent significant time in this little drama club, that's a wickedly funny clip. Greg Wall posted it over on A.com as a humorous take on life in banned camp, and I think coffee might have actually come out my nose the first time I watched it.

Yyes, the damp sandstone is more likely to have holds break off, and most routes don't have any holds to spare. The rain was more than just a casual shower, so I think it would be prudent to not climb today, though I'm rather impatient to do some climbing. ah well.

Reminds me of Steve Martin's old bit about he could never be a woman, he'd just stand in front of the mirror and play with his tits all the time.

It's a wee bit damp out here, probably climable, though we did have about 12 hours of steady rain, and the stone might be a little tender. I haven't heard from any of the regular crew, I don't know that anyone is coming out tonight.

Well, if you don't accept the apology, then clearly you're an idiot. duh.

Nau Nau Nau? What, are you doing Amy Winehouse karaoke these days Bill?

Not me. I'm going to live forever.

Wait a minute. Are you telling me that you were the one training every day to be fastest russian climber? What has his name, Antoponov? I miss that avatar.

Huh, I didn't think Office Space needed a sequel...

I was sort of wondering about that nude erection he was talking about...

Knitting is punk as hell.

Keep trying kid, you're still Adamson lite.

Train your dog.

Well, they're no Tracy and Hepburn if that's what you mean...

Too late.....and we are not at war....we are occupying another country. Please get it right. Thank you Kevbone! Exactly right. The war has been over for quite some time, it's the occupation that hasn't gone so smoothly. "Occupation" is an ugly word that folks, both in the administration and the citizenry in general, don't want to own up to, but its much more accurate than "Iraq War." Oh, and Scott? You are right too. 4000+ Americans have died for nothing.

Where does Tim live these days, is he still based in Der? I haven't seen him in a long time. There's some nice photos there, thanks for the link Mark.