Greg_W

We were in and out of snow hiking in the trees up to SEWS. Once out of the trees, we were on snow all the way to the base of the South Arete. Most of gully to Lib. Bell Col is snow free; so it appears.

I'm proud to say that my Tooth Count is at a perfect goose egg: 0 attempts/0 ascents.

He wasn't wearing the helmet at the time; that pic was taken on our way down. helmets wouldn't have helped for shit. Apparently nothing exciting ever happens when you live on an island; we heard about Billygoat's "near death" experience all fucking night. It was spicy, for sure.

Kyle, We went up through the cornice left of the slabs; actually, about center of the cornice.

won't last, they won't understand...dumpthatbitch...

My favorite jacket is usually somebody else's. Man, I gotta break down and go softshell.

Nothing. It's all shit. Maybe some early '90's metal, or Bowie (he seems timeless).

For history buffs, I am plowing through "The Arms of Krupp", by William Manchester. A very comprehensive history of the Krupp Firm and the family; main armorers for two Kaisers and Adolf Hitler. Alfried Krupp was tried at Nuremberg as a war criminal. A great view, from a different angle, into the culture/mindset of Germans in the 3rd Reich.

Who the fuck is he?

Sheeeeit. Not sharing my bourbon with you this weekend.

Having climbed the route, I'm interested in where they fell and what exactly happened. Not super difficult/steep ground, but the results of a fall aren't inviting, to be sure. Hmmm... Rest in Peace, dudes.

Damn! I don't have a digital pic, but Bug can attest to how my g/f looks on her Ducati.

On that "bear hug" Pitch on SW Rib, better way to go would be a chunk of 2X4 about 6" long with 15-20-degree miters on each end (running parallel). Pop a hole in one side, about 1.5" from the end and thread a runner. BLAM!!! nice, light homemade BigBro; knock it in there nice and tight and consider leaving it fixed. Otherwise, don't bother with the big pro; it's like a stemming problem on super-grippy rock and it only lasts 3 moves.

Easy, youngster. You don't know who you're dealing with here. (Just a friendly word of caution)

Why would your shotgun be unloaded? If it's for home security, it's loaded already.

With this attitude, they'll be gone before you know it. The current attempt by Democrats in Congress to reinstate the "Clinton Assault Weapons Ban" has been expanded to include semi-automatic shotguns.

Gee, doncha wish you owned a gun?

What about the other side of your hypothetical ending? If the shooter had NOT carried a gun, he may have serious injuries from the dogs that were charging him; one of which, as noted in the article, had a HISTORY of aggressive, dangerous behavior. My carrying a gun whilst hiking does not endanger you in the least; unless you attempt to threaten my life or that of my hiking partners. From my side of it, my carrying a gun in close proximity to you provides YOU with an added measure of security, as I would come to your aid if you were in danger. However, if you don't want such help that's fine; I'll leave you to your fate. Justin, my point about money flowing into the coffers of anti-gun organizations was that these "chicken little" scenarios like the ones you brought up and the hyped "facts" are what AGS, Brady Campaign, et al. use to justify their efforts and appeal to donors. Without exploiting fear, they have no power to incite their patrons. Greg_W

ashw_justin: I did not make the "assumption that without a gun I am unsafe." You did not read that in my post. The fact is, I go many places without carrying; I do not feel unsafe at these times. It's about assessment of risk, as I stated. While your "what-ifs" really bring in the dollars to the coffers of anti-gun organizations, they don't really have any basis in fact. Don't speak for all gun-haters, justin, speak for yourself. My OPINIONS are based on observation and interaction with others. They may only apply to the small sample set that I have been exposed to, but it's the data I have. We all base our opinions on such information. Your assertion that widespread slaughter has already started is baseless. Economist John Lott has compiled much statistical data showing that the presence, and prevalence of concealed-carry permits correlate with lower crime rates, and the opposite is also shown. As others have said here, many states require training before a CWP is issued. So, yes, those people are somewhat educated on safety. Others of us have been taught from youth or are self-taught. A final note: a gun does not make me safe. It is a tool to insure my safety and the safety of my loved ones. It is up to me to listen to my instincts and make smart choices to keep myself safe. BUT, when a curveball is thrown at me, then I have tools at my disposal to insure my safety. Greg_W

This has been a fun thread to observe. I've noticed several things. One, guys like Gotterdammerung and Harpell (and I'll throw myself in there) only state that they carry guns as their chosen mode of self-protection. Except for Harpell mentioning his concern over cougars, no mention of 'fear' has been made by these guys as reason for carrying. Two, the gun-haters involved in this thread (JoshK, skeezix, ashw) have taken ample opportunity to deride the other side for their own choices. Why, I ask? A person's choice of self-defense is their own. Scott, myself, and/or G'rung don't castigate non-gun-carriers as morons or stupid, to my knowledge. As individuals, we all have our own level of acceptable risk, safety, and threat, and we react and prepare accordingly. I don't presume to call skeezix an idiot because he feels safe walking down Rainier Ave. S. at 2 a.m. in a white hooded sweatshirt without a plan for self-protection. He obviously feels safe taking that risk. Fine, that's his choice. Alternately, it is my choice to carry when I know I'll be walking certain parts of Seattle's downtown late at night. I am beginning to believe that the derisive attitude of those of the anti-gun slant comes from fear. Not fear of attack or injury, but fear of discovering that the world is not the soft, cuddly, friendly place they have created in their mind. The fear that there ARE people who will beat you unconscious for the $10 in your pocket. The fear that when confronted, they will be forced to make a choice to defend themselves and they will be rendered impotent. The fear that there IS harshness in the world, and that they lack the fortitude to respond. The fear that the bubble will burst. I am also starting to see that the source of this dismissive attitude comes from lack of knowledge coupled with arrogance. Because they have no knowledge of safe gun practices, they have no faith in others to carry and utilize said knowledge. Those with lack of exposure to guns seem to think that we're all just a hair trigger away from indiscriminately blazing away (note skeezix's comment above regarding having his float tube shot full of holes). Sure, much of this is couched as humor, but I would posit that there is an underlying fear there. Humor is a common tool for masking fear and/or uncertainty. The bottom line is about choice. I make my choices; Scott makes his; Josh makes his; G'rung makes his. We all select our own modes of self-protection and, hopefully, accept the outcomes of those choices. Be safe, everyone. Greg_W

I've seen lizards on the crags in L'worth.

Fri: hike and booze Sat: climb, climb, climb more, glissade, booze Sun: hike out, drive, shower, nap, bbq, sleep in warm bed Mon: eat pancakes, chill, take bus downtown, see "The Day After Tomorrow", walk around, drink coffee, take bus, eat elk

No wonder I felt like I was sleeping 6' off the ground surrounded by nubile women dressed only in palm fronds.

It was a great trip and nice to redeem my last attempt. Bug's definition of "bomber pro" is a little odd, since I remember climbing nervously above two tied off knifeblades. Hanging out with Bug is always a good time; no stories of wacked out mescaline trips from his youth this time, though.

Actually, starting and continuing the war was based on Harry S. Truman's pledge to be the "anti-Communist Policeman to the World." And, since the advent of the Kennedy family (heretofore known as "the global family of Satan's spawn") in politics "liberal" has been synonymous with "Democrat."