Gary_Yngve

Dude, that what happens when you read the Aeneid in Latin.

They can be useful for anchoring in prior to rappeling or for a temporary anchor when swapping climbers (e.g. someone ropegunning up everything). But a sling with a locker will certainly suffice.

In Latin, it's pronounced Wah ghee nah, and it means sheath. Naturally then, gladius was slang for penis in the Roman times.

Dru, your yak comments make it loud and clear that you're not getting any. I'm sorry for you.

We're having a BBQ at the UW Rock today, starting 5 PM. Non-UWCC people are welcome to join in, as well as partake in food if it looks like there is plenty for club members (I bought a lot of food).

The real questions: Could you have sex on top of Everest, and what would it be like? Without supplemental oxygen?

Actually, they are warm, unless you're a necrophiliac.

Stoney Richards was manning the desk this morning. We were hoping to summit via Lib Ridge on Monday and were prepared for the cold temps and possible retreat from Thumb Rock should avy danger above look bad. We were encouraged by the weather forecasts over the past few days, which didn't show that much recent precip (even estimating new snow by multiplying Paradise telemetry by 4 didn't look too bad), but when he told us that Camp Schurman received something like 18" of fresh overnight, we bailed on the Lib Ridge plans. Since we were lacking skiis, we drove home.

I hiked out that way, and it was fabulous. (We came in over Cannon).

As long as there are schoolgirls, I'll happily be a schoolboy.

Joseph, thanks for doing these tests. I'm sure the results are raising some eyebrows. I'm sure many of us would be interested in seeing the results of a larger test, and as Bill offered, I'd happily contribute some slings too (though mine aren't nearly as old as Bill's ).

You may be right, Matt. In that case, the Mounties need to figure out how to streamline their program so that it is financially solvent with a smaller membersip.

Minx and RuMR made some good points: The club system is from an older time, and things are different now (it made a lot more sense before the Internet and today's fast-paced society). One could argue that fifty years ago, learning through the Mounties was probably the best way to go. There are many more options now. The Mounties will go extinct if change doesn't happen. They've had a steady reduction in numbers over the years, and their average age is growing. Some Mounties are trying to change the system. But there are committee members and board directors and bureaucracy. And many of those people are old and/or old-fashioned. While conservatism is good for keeping the club safe from lawsuits and other stupid shit, it doesn't allow the club to freely change with the times.

I agree, it's not hard to climb 5.4 in boots. But it's certainly easier to climb slab in tennies or rockshoes. That's the Mounties mentality for you. Moreso the older generation. The younger generation is more likely to climb in gyms and use rockshoes. As I said, things are changing, but slowly. Hopefully there will be no more Mounties approaching Eldorado or Olympus in plastic boots.

Were they wearing rockshoes or boots?

When I climbed the East Buttress Direct of SEWS as a Mounties Intermediate climb (with only small buttpacks), we downclimbed the S Arete past a Mountie party going up. We did not get harrassesd.

John, what routes? The Basic Mounties only climb S Arete SEWS, WR Cutthroat, and the easy route on Kang Temple. All the other climbs are Intermediate. I didn't think WaPass was in NCNP?

John, I'm being serious here. If you ever catch a Mounties party larger than 6 in NCNP (or two Mounties parties camped together), please report it to the Mounties at once. In the past there had been errors in the database (or no database) that allowed for situations for different branches to bump into each other on a climb, but I think those have been fixed. If leaders are not checking the schedule for conflicts, then they will be censured. By reporting any violations you see to the Mounties, you will help ensure that you will never see more than 6 Mounties at once in NCNP. The Mounties intend to follow the rules just like everyone else.

Minx, we're in the wrong forum for that.

Yeah, well I'm testing my program and waiting two minutes for the data to load for each test. So I have time to flip too, but not enough time to be productive.

Actually there is a part of the Climbing Course called the Mentor Program, where Climb Leaders organize extracurricular activities with a smaller group of students. These activities do include climbing in the gym or the crag and beer drinking, depending on who's running your mentor group. The mentor groups are optional and vary in intensity, but folks who really want to get dirty and learn a lot can benefit immensely from them.

Furthermore, every new basic student this year sat through a short lecture involving safety and risk that specifically addressed the Sharkfin accident. Every new intermediate student this year sat through a longer lecture that addressed specific issues from the accident (slinging boulders, loads on anchors, etc.)

1) I'd say that most of the accidents with the Mounties don't involve basic students but rather ropeleads/climb leaders. I hope the accident rate will go down. There's been a few too many high-profile accidents lately, but I think it's just an unlucky streak and is solely a result of probability. 2) This is annoying. But those areas are crowded with private climbers too. The Mounties are aware of the impact they are having, and they are doing smaller party sizes. They also have online schedules and coordinate among branches so they don't have two parties hitting the same route on the same day. 3) A bastard might say, "If you're getting stuck behind the Mounties, you're not climbing hard enough." The good news is that many times you can pass them on the approach or even at a belay if you ask nicely. I've done this on both The Tooth and Ingalls. 4) This is annoying. There are some bad apples in the Mounties, and unfortunately it makes the whole barrel smell. 5) I don't think it's awkward to ask for a clarification. I learned my lesson from making assumptions about a new partner who said he could swing leads (trad) at 5.9 and wanted to climb Lib Ridge in Spring. He wasn't with the Mounties. 6) There definitely are some. I believe the woman who soloed the Nisq Ice Cliff recently is with the Everett Branch. But there are people who really just want to get up Rainier once or are in the class because of their SO and don't give a shit about anything else. I do agree with you that many leave the course being hypersensitive about danger and the "right way" to do something. Maybe it's better for the error to be biased this way rather than the other way. Ken4ord is also correct that some Mounties worship/fear certain (often easy) climbs and develop egos when conquering them. Again, this is a subset. I learn who these people are and avoid them like the plague. I also avoid other Mountie leaders who are known to go slow, have poor judgment regarding weather/turnaround times, and are obsessive about climbing in boots instead of rockshoes. I have my own private list, but it's too touchy of a subject for the list to become public or for there to be "impeachment" hearings to revoke CL status (except in very egregious cases).

RUMR, you are pretty ignorant of what actually happens. Let me explain to you how the Seattle branch works a party of six for a basic rock climb consists of: 1 Climb Leader 2 Rope Leads 3 Basic Students A Basic Student has passed fieldtrips on knots and simple anchors, belaying, elementary climbing, ice axe / self-arrest, and escaping the belay. A Rope Lead has passed the Basic Course (done a minimum of three climbs plus fieldtrips), passed a 2-day fieldtrip on gear placement, and passed a 1-day fieldtrip of leading multipitch trad. Rope Leads are encouraged to practice on their own before going with students, but it cannot be enforced. A Climb Leader has done a large number of climbs (including climbs at the Intermediate level), acted as a Mentored Leader (where the real leader backs off and lets the Mentored Leader take charge) on several climbs, and has been approved by the climbing committee. The main problem with CLs is they are "for life," as I understand, so folks who get rusty are still in the system. This could be a problem. But the worse problem is if you make more stringent rules, you lose CLs.

Wasn't nearly as bad as Rockguy's accusation/criticism of the late L.I. that was deleted by Iceguy. I don't blame Tom. There's been too many cheap shots being taken at the Mounties, many by folks who really don't know what's going on inside.