Gary_Yngve

Good idea, but I wish it were that easy, Chris. I think that if we "forbade" instructing until already two years into the program, we'd probably have an even harder time finding sufficient volunteers to instruct! Also if you have ideas for incentives to keep the good instructors coming back year after year...

sweetness! let's get this moved to events...

EricB, yes, I've heard he findings. If you have specific questions, PM me and I'd be happy to answer them. There are a lot of Mountaineers who'd like to lay this accident to rest, not because they're trying to hide it, but because it's been such an emotional ordeal. They had a committee, including esteemed outsiders, do a very detailed review, and they presented their findings probably at least a dozen times to different audiences, both experience-wise and geographically.

The initally injured member was not in that bad of shape but was unable to rappel unassisted. The collective experience in the group was quite high, and they made the decision to rappel off a boulder, which I won't second-guess. Certainly hindsight has pointed out certain things, but we've all made those sorts of mistakes before and gotten away with it. Hell, didn't the late Todd Skinner have a boulder anchor atop El Cap fail but didn't get the axe then? This incident has been investigated into submission by the Mounties, and a whole list of recommendations and teaching points resulted from it.

Or by branch? The Mounties record lately is much better if you knock out Tacoma from the stats. Or what about stats on accidents/close-calls of CC.com folks vs. non-CC.com folks?

Chris, I agree. And if you have any advice for how to address this issue for when we're teaching in winter/spring, I'm all ears.

I heard that one of Jens's regular partners flunked outta da Mounties. The Mounties regularly have a graduation rate of something like 1/2 to 2/3. And they do kick out people who have been warned about fitness, safety, etc., and don't get better.

To clear up some misconceptions, 1) Intermediate students can teach and ropelead their first year, but they are not required to. They have 5+ years to fulfill that requirement. 2) There should never be a situation where a 2nd-year is teaching a 1st-year without supervision. Usually 1-2 2nd-years are paired with someone more experienced when they are teaching the 1st-years. 3) When you see that dumbass large slow group in front of you, is it the Mounties? Or is it WAC / BoeAlps /OSAT / Mazamas? 4) The Mounties don't like having a bad image of themselves. If you encounter a problem with them and can't resolve it in the field, then please notify a higher-up in the Mounties so that action can be taken.

Would crime decrease if everyone carried grenades?

The Mountaineers have: http://www.mountaineers.org/library/videos.htm

They should only carry a gun if they are first carrying navigational tools, firstaid kit, headlamp, and other ten essentials.

Whoops, I need to clarify: Because there are many more people who carry guns, get lost in the backcountry, and need to be rescued, than there are people who don't carry guns and get attacked by man or beast in the backcountry.

What's your CC.com passwd? Don't be afraid.

i agree!

Because there are many more people who carry guns, get lost in the woods, and need to be rescued, than there are people who don't carry guns and get attacked by man or beast.

XXX, you make a lot of assumptions: - bones are indeed human - if so, the subject died on-scene, as opposed to being dumped there - that the death was homicidal But maybe with your common sense demonstrated thusfar, you do pack some heat to even your odds the next time you're threatened by rockfall, avalanche, storm, etc.?

http://www.alpinist.com/doc/ALP17/newswire-refugee-murder

I found these: http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=83571 http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1318349 Also, in case it's not obvious, iluka is an MD and G-spotter's an MF.

Thanks for posting and spreading awareness.

Certainly tongue-and-cheek and provocative, as it's in Spray. I agree with your points mostly, though mental illness is something that may need medical treatment that is unavailable to them and untreated will leave them vulnerable to substance abuse and complicate the process of finding work, housing, etc.

Interesting discussion. First some comments on Index: -If you have a 60m rope and can get off Princely Ambitions or Godzilla without downclimbing, then your rope is longer than my rope. -I'm really happy that Sagg has anchors below the 11b roof because I'm selfish and I can't climb 11b roofs. Though we're focusing on bolts and anchors, rap slings are about as much as a big deal to me. On the WR of Prusik, there are ratnests on the ridge itself, and there are parallel stations on the north face descent too. Not to mention stuck cams. No one maintains the stations, and there may be the station for the 50m rap and the one for the 60m rap. Over on the Burgner-Stanley there's several chockstones/blocks that are slung. Forbidden east ledges is nice because the stations seem to be maintained. There's neither redundant stations nor ratnests. Now onto the Bugaboos, where chains have largely replaced slings. On the Kain Route, it's pretty clean, keeps the tat down, though depending on skill level, some of the raps can be downclimbed ropeless. The Kraus-McNarthy is a different story though. You need two ropes to descend, but it seems there are rap stations set up for 40m ropes, 50m ropes, and 60m ropes... all interleaved. Seemed a bit excessive. So is the problem really bolts or rap slings, or is it people? Too many people climbing routes that require leaving some amount of fixed gear behind? If so, then we're part of the problem, unless we're only climbing clean and doing walkoffs. I think we all agree that we want to mitigate the problem, but where to draw the line is hard to define. I don't think any of us wants grid-bolted cracks nor all-out bans on climbing (look at the impact of feet scrubbing off lichen over time, such as on Outer Space or WF NEWS). Sticking with tradition is one way to go, though that's not entirely consistent, and times are changing. I like the fact that I can rap down Dreamer instead of "walking off" via 3rd-class bushwhacking, but I'd be furious if Breakfast of Champions got bolted. As long as the climbing community communicates and doesn't polarize, I think we'll be ok.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/10/12/robber.retirement.ap/index.html

Thanks, but we're doing a WFA course on campus Sat-Sun during the daytime, and I have evening plans for Fri night and Sun night. Though RopeUp may partially explain why our WFA enrollment is lower than expected. I believe my two current roommates will be at Ropeup.

we're having a BBQ at the UW Rock today, 5-7 PM. you're welcome to stop by

What did Tommy wear for Nose + Freerider?