Bug

I know wrong.

Once again, the equation that Stalin was atheist (which has been debatable, but let's assume he was), therefore indicates that his atheism was the source of his immorality. As much as you erroneously assume that I was suggesting Carter, Truman, Kennedy etc. were douchebags because they were Christians, this Stalin example is pure hyperbole. My point was that Christianity doesn't anymore, or less, guarantee morals in one's heart than atheism would suggest inherent "lack of morals". The common wisdom is that lacking religion, one cannot possibly have a shred of moral foundation. Are you saying then, that without religion you personally would kill, steal, lie, and cheat? If your answer is no, of course you would not, then on what basis would you have constructed the moral fiber to reject these actions? Apparently it would come from somewhere, then, but without religion and faith, where?- perhaps it's a combination of one's upbringing and culture combined with a genetic predisposition to goodness or mischief? We clearly have in human society people who are, for no apparent reason, just not good natured, and people who are. My view is that if one needs a system of morals written down for them to follow, that's their prerogative and that should not be interfered with by any state or individual. But if you want to talk about it... name one of the 10 commandments which any group of decent individuals, regardless of culture or upbringing, couldn't agree upon- atheists included. All the rest of the ritual and circumstance and pageantry of religion, beyond a set of exceedingly obvious morals, is a matter of culture, opinion, and in the end, a means to control other people. Certain religions or branches of them, such as radical Islam, have added on more strict "morals" that we in the west see as immoral, yet we fail to grasp that these people truly believe this stuff they preach, but we're not willing to address it on the level of belief because faith and belief are simply not open to discussion in any culture. People should be able to believe whatever they want, including not to "believe" in anything, yet the most vitriolic hatred seems reserved not for religious extremists such as Al Qaida, but the "godless". You can be anything you want in the world, but no matter where you go, don't even think of expressing atheist views. That much is universal, and it has infinitely less to do with specious, circumstantial comparisons of Stalin as the shining example of "atheism in action", than it does to the absolute threat to someone's faith that the mere existence of a being who has no faith, regardless of whether that person otherwise demonstrates "moral" behavior. Faith is the base level expectation that most people have for one another; those lacking it are looked upon as filth. Now, you tell me who should be afraid. We agree then. Except for the following which does not apply to me. "Faith is the base level expectation that most people have for one another; those lacking it are looked upon as filth." What most people don't understand about Christianity, and this includes many Christians, is that no one is in a position to think they are better than anyone else. The only thing that makes true (imo) Christians a sepatarate group is that we know that only by Jesus sacrificing himself for our sins can we spend eternity in the presence of God. Now that is not God excluding you non beleivers. What you choose freely is up to you. It is not up to God. He gave you the full ability to make that choice. And the whole concept of Hell is an example of social controls. While there may be evil spirits of various sorts, you are not necessarily "aligned" with them just by choosing not to beleive in God or religion. The distinction is significant and very under stated in most doctrines. So go your way with great happiness. May it work well for you now and for all of eternity.

I'm pretty sure it's all been shredded already.

So Are you volunteering to be a crappy partner? We can bring a haul bag and portaledge on Diedre. Fix lines the whole way. What do you say? Too long of a drive. How about exit 38?

No matter how you slice it... True adventure in a shrinking world.

It will have a list of tankers that were named after cabinet members too.

the president praying has nothing to do w/ the separation of church and state... but it does have everything to do w/ his freedom of religion. ever heard of that? If he prays, then gets a message from God and acts on it, that is not a separation of church and state. He better not be praying the oval office. At least not on our time. You're such a stupid ass, boner, really. You want to bet that Clinton did not pray while in office? On YOUR time? And Carter? Kennedy? Johnson? FDR? Truman? You think they were atheists? All of them religious. All of them corrupt fuckheads toeing the same corrupt political line. Hmmmmm. What is your point? Are you suggesting that Christians "should" be more pure? Would that it were true. Alas, I am as impure as you. I just keep trying to tap into that connection and get back on track. Meanwhile, lets look at the self proclaimed atheists who have governed large countries.... Stalin, Lennon? Oh take me back to Nirvanna!

"Enshallah"

yeah, join the Christian-haters, Bug. God forbid the president believes he should pray for guidance and act accordingly to those beliefs. I beleive he prays. I just don't beleive he listens to the answers as much as he listens to Cheney and the corporate lackies. I think he is lazy and is trying to do what "smart" people tell him. Problem is, those "smart" people are corporate fascists. In other words, they are willing to sell soldiers lives for the billions of dollars they are raking in on unsupervised defense contracts. Look at Haliburton, Blackwater etc...... And don't try to turn this into a Democrat Republican thing. The Democrats in Washinton state, especially King County are just as corrupt. I'm just saying......

So Are you volunteering to be a crappy partner?

This is my all time favorite on CC.COM.

Don't forget the chapel where spiritual decisions are made. Like, wether or not to support pro-life policies or, wether or not to lie about weapons of mass destruction and send thousands of US soldiers to their deaths.

NW Butt is a lot of loose rock on slab. I downclimbed/rapped it once and never had the urge to return. I would guess that the 5.9 traverse would go easier with a rope but I didn't actually climb it.

It might be worth looking in Ephrata.

Electric city and Coulee city both have rentals. I haven't done it but I remember seeing the signs.

Hide a liter of koolaid or something in his pack so the kids don't know its there until they are almost ready to mutiny. Hide it from the kids. Not the dad. Have him take a couple shots of scotch for the late evening.

Well you sure know how to suck the fun out of an afternoon. But can't we at least say, "Golly! That sounds like a comfy hut!"?

It's all about keeping the gene pool at the razor's edge. Somebody has to do it, otherwise we would descend... So it's okay to die of heart disease because you don't exercise, or diabetes caused by coca-cola, or from pharmacuticals cuz you can't handle reality, or in a car accident because you don't know how to drive in your "safe" rollover SUV? 11 is a pretty small number actually from the total population of climbers. In my experience, women who do not work out and consider a vacation to be laying on a beach for 10 days, will not in a thousand years consider their husband "a good man" if he is a climber. These two types are from such different worlds they should make no effort to comment on each others' activities.

These three should be publicly identified and plagued with questions and ridicule. Narcissistic assholes is the nicest term I can think of.

No. Bush is in Asia. That's why Georgia was invaded.

This is sad news. My condolances to all who knew her. I took a fall a couple decades ago that should have been fatal. It was not on a pitch that pushed my abilities. I let my guard down, fell for no apparent reason, and got lucky. I suspect that happens more than we hear about.

Uh-huh. Improvement rate from almost zero to ... of course it's a huge jump. Nothing to do with the mounties, but to personal experience and getting out. Personal responsibility is the key component to becoming a competent climber imo.

Do we know that he hasn't taken responsibility for it? Or, are you just supposing? Are you supposing that I am supposing something? I didn't suppose anything. I know nothing about him. I just put out an opinion. Regardless of the circumstances, he pulled the trigger. It is best for him and all involved to accept that and move forward. Parts of that will be very harsh regardless of his personal attributes or lack thereof.

When I was 13 I was hunting alone in a fairly remote spot. I had been tracking an elk for a few hours and stopped for an hour to let it think I had given up. Above me there was a thicket and I started hearing rustling coming my way. I leveled my 30-30 and was ready to fire. Out walked another hunter. I will never forget the feeling of having his chest in my sights. But I did not even come close to pulling the trigger. Sorry but this kid needs to take responsibility for pulling the trigger.