Bug

I have seen too many friendships dissolve over this issue. Cheers Bill.

Yes. I understand your point. Chicken or the egg?

While it is nice of you to engage this discussion in a meaningful way, we are now in spray. Why pretend that you or the moderators here will give a different bolting perspective any respect? For example, let's say that someone truely believes thatany permanent man made product has no business in a wilderness area or National Park. While you are free to disagree, does this "radical" perspective automatically deserve to be denegrated and moved to spray? Why not post your question in a new thread in the climbing forum? This is an example of how this entire site and its moderators, and operator(s) have alienated a large sector of the climbing community. I still find it useful for some purposes but find myself respecting it less and less.

Hey! What about the fact that it was 5:40 AM!? 13 years old and she summitted Rainier by 5:40AM. Woo Hoo!

I hear I should not solo it.... I applaud your listening to advice. How about going up to the Encantments and climbing Little Annapurna? Then MAYBE the back side of Dragontail with an ice ax. Do NOT be tempted by the Colchuck Glacier. It will likely be icey and unforgiving. Go up the left side of Asgard Pass. Post a TR.

Much of what appears on this site as every-day talk about bolting would have seemed like a "Flame" in the 70's and early 80's. Raindawg may be "inflammetory" but imo so are many of you to the other extreme. You just have control of this site which allows you to label those with differing opinions however you want. A good discussion about bolting vs trad needs to be ongoing. Without ethics discussions we will end up with trash.

Open discussion is the only hope this site offers from time to time. Troll or not, large-scale-bolting-control is a worthwhile topic that is too easily polarized. Why not limit the development of sport areas to a quarter of the pace of current development? or some other "carefully discussed" fraction. I don't think there are a lot of people out there who think ALL bolts and ALL sport routes should be banned. But there ARE a lot who think the current pace of development is short-sighted, self-serving, and generally apposed to a "leave no trace" concept that has been developed over the last 40 years. Why didn't Fred use Camelots when he was a teenager?

FYI, I often ask climbers I meet out in alpine settings if they post on CC.COM. Most say "No". Reason 1. Assholes/info ratio too high. Reason 2. Pro bolting as is evidenced by sticking a topo of a sport climb in the wilderness at the top of the "Rock Climbing" forum. And this kind of thread in general. There are a lot of trad climbers out there who do not care to associate themselves with your behavior here or in the mountains. Piss about eletism all you want. Then re-read this thread up to this point. Highschool football locker room comes to mind. Shit-for-brains is another. Your wanton drilling is self serving. I like an occaisional sport route but not every available face needs to be bolted. For those of you who do not understand the "Leave no trace" concept, sleep out in south Seattle then in a wilderness area. Tell us which one you like best. Or conversly, tell us why you promote destroying pristine environments for your own short term pleasure. Do future generations have no bearing on your behavior? If that were the mentality of previous generations we would have not wilderness areas, no National Parks. Why bother saving Index? I only have a couple good decades left there. I'm not spending my hard earned money so a bunch of youngns can climb there and call me an old fart. I'll buy plane tickets instead and go to the Valley or Squamish.

It wouldn't be buggy comparatively. I'm envisioning a cross between Amazon's supply chain and Salesforce's CRM service. So we could install it on Windows Vista?

Totally. And here are Olivia and I on Rainier's summit.

Yeah for sure. Or Tiny Tim's dad.

Let's just buy them all an abacus and save tons of money.

Nope. I read your response. Did you actually listen to Obama's statement before you pronounced it a "knee jerk reaction?" Lets parse the words. The whole thing. Yeah, let's "parse" every fucking word. We can start with the word "is" and determine what the meaning of it is. fap, fap, fap, fap

Bike.

Global warming is melting all the snow this year. Get up there quick to be the last one to see it. I flew over Stu on Tuesday the 21st. I marked the route. Yellow is hiking. Orange is where you have to pay attention to route finding.

The president has no business commenting on an issue like this. His position is way out of context no matter what he says. Obama screwed up.

Every Health insurance company pays huge penalties every day for wrongly denied claims. It is cheaper to deny legitimate claims and pay the penalties because many people do not know they can appeal without spending money. Others simply die. As Gary said, it is about money. Not about hte contrat they promised to uphold. And guess what? Health insurance companies are one of the largest contributors to campaigns and lobbying efforts in DC. Obama owes his allegience to the people who sent him donations in $100 payments or less. Not the packs and huge contributors that donated to, and supported most senators and representatives in DC today. As the internet backing that Obama's camp orchestrated is successfully utilized by more and more congresspeople, we will see more and more of them stand up to the corporate buyouts that characterize national politics of the last couple decades.

OK tapeless climbers. This is waiting for a SFA without gauntlets.

Shit, how many people can say they learned to climb with The Fiend. A lot. That was Alex.

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jYwVXpyuT8 Blundering fool of a kid? You have no idea who you are dealing with! Feel free to hate me as long as you live. I hope that it is a very long time but I have my doubts. Cheers Josh.

When I was sixteen, I had been climbing for about four years. This included a lot of technical summits in the Bitterroots. Up to that point I had not fallen. If I had, I probably would have died and taken my belayer with me. Finally, someone my own age recognized my determination and offered to help. We went up Kootenai creek and he introduced me to the concept of belay anchors. There were a lot more lessons to follow and because I listened and wanted to learn, he introduced me to his friends who climbed. That was Alex Lowe. Stand-up guy. Josh needs someone to teach him for sure. But more importantly, Josh needs to listen and learn. A "Just go for it" post is likely to cost this kid his life and maybe someone else's as well. Fuck anyone who does not take this into account and give this specific blundering fool of a kid, decent advise. You are encouraging him to drive the freeway with his eyes closed.

Yeah. That Ponderosa dude is out there. Be are about asking him to be your mentor. I mean really. He calls himself a tree and looks like a moon. And it has been established in another thread that the moon does not even exist. The jury is still out on trees.

So, your practice of Isha Yoga results in your remaining a judgmental asshole. Ahem. An enlightened judgmental asshole if you don't mind. And I see that your aura is blotchy and grey from too many serious conversations.

Very nice.

When they are no longer happy it is too much. Both of my daughters are really good at soccer. They moved from the rec league to the Select league early on and didn't like it. "All they care about is winning. I can't even talk to my friends." They are both back in the rec league by choice. The younger one was a great gymnast and was practicing 2 hours a day three days a week at age 6. She loved it. Too bad her knee tendon didn't. Many kids these days are too focused on one activity. That can be detrimental. But if they really love it, you can use it as leverage. "If you pull your grade up in math you can go to the tournament in X." Or my favorite, "Eat your broccolli or I'll give your climbing shoes to a homeless person."