Jim

PP - They told a dozen other significant lies. They made no effort to correct this statement - which is rather significant. It was carried far and wide by the press. You're naive if you think this was a mistake. They knew what they were presenting - it was very calculated. Again I would say you've presented no facts to change the picture. He said it, it was carried by the media, and there was no attempt to change it.

Cheny is a very astute political player. You present no evidence he made an error. Did the White House Press office offer a retraction of this later? No. Did Cheny change his statement? No. Did it fit in well with the fairy tale they were constructing? Yes.

If you want a broader context how about the lies of the State of the Union address, the lies to the United Nations General Assembly, the constant lies during the PR campaign about the Iraqi threat. I think in that context the intent is clear. And that quote about Gore and zebra spots is good!!!

He mis-spoke?? On Meet the Press! No way. It was all very calculated. Just as the "yellow-cake" nuclear material was a calculated lie to get people scared.

PP - gimme a break! I smell major backpedalling.

This is now a pain, and I don't know the solution. Because they now X-ray all checked bags they can spot your buried fuel bottle and stove. I've had two empty fuel bottles and pumps taken by security. I was told that if the fuel bottle ever had fuel in it it cannot be put on the plane. If they find it they will take it. Same with the stove. They now have displays in airport of what you cannot take on the plane, and stoves and fuel bottles are included. I asked them what are you supposed to do for camping then, and they said maybe a friend could mail it back to you (!?). Someone on this board suggested filling the bottle up with soda - but if it smells like fuel they will take it. So I don't know. You can hide it but if they find it you're screwed.

Pika's are not rodents. They're in the Order Lagomorpha, with rabbits and hares. For those who care (?) they have double ranked incisors, that is one pair right behind the others.

Snakes are never a problem, unless you're prey.

No cable, TV lives in the closet except for video rentals.

Here's some park info, seems like they cuttin' back already: Citizens pay for about 70 percent of the parks operating budget through taxes, but the budget isn’t keeping up with costs and needs. In a little more than a decade, while business costs have been rising, inflation grew 32 percent and park visitation increased 30 percent, while the State Parks budget increased by only 13 percent. To get by over the years, staff has put off doing repairs, consolidated operating units, eliminated lifeguard and interpretive programs and limited park and interpretive centers hours to seasonal-only. With the park system at risk, the commission feels it would be irresponsible not to do all we can to hold the system together, and it seems fairest to ask the people who use the parks to pay more State Parks was required to take a $2.9 million budget cut in the current fiscal year and responded by turning back some maintenance money, making cuts from regions and headquarters and turning back leases on parks owned by other entities if they could not provide operating help. This resulted in four parks – Crow Butte, Chief Timothy, Lyons Ferry and Central Ferry state parks – being returned to the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, the Bureau of Reclamation taking over management of Summer Falls and Lake Cushman being returned to Tacoma Power. The governor’s proposed budget for 2003-2005 calls for five park closures. The State Parks Commission will weigh the options to determine whether the final budget adopted by the legislature requires further closures. The governor’s budget will require reductions and does require State Parks to raise approximately $12.5 million in revenue through new fees and increases. And yes, eastern WA generally gets more road building and maintenance funds than they contribute. Winers.

Thanks for correcting my spelling. I choose Karen Armstrong's account because she is a well respected mid-east scholar, not an Israeli site or Palasteian stite, which both put their spin on it. I'd suggest to anyone interested in the history of the muslin, christian, and jewish history of the area to pick give this book a read. It's very good. Too bad a land so holy to all three faiths is such a mess. But because it is so important all involved have such a stake. And once you read the book you understand that many of the important sites have no historical connection to facts.

I understand you're point - reduce the budget and don't charge us anything. And I agree with the general idea that they should be charging for these small parks. But I would still say they are doing the minimum right now. There's a long list of back-log maintenance for parks these days, even with a concerted effort to use volunteer organizations. The voters have spoken that they want less taxes - yet expect the same level of services (not you specifically). We're in the middle of the pack in the US tax structure, really not burdensome, and compared to other countries we spend little on our open space. Just seems to me that people want it both ways - don't want to pay taxes and want smaller government - but want everything to work the way it did before.

But in the current anit-tax climate they have no room to maneuver. How would you suggest they raise the funds? Generally I agree that public lands users should not be charged for access to minimally improved land - i.e. USFS, BLM, BOR, DNR, most state parks.

The history of Israel often gets fuzzy, depending on who is interperting. There's a great (detailed and long) history of settlement of the area in Jerusalum: One City Three Faiths by Karen Armstrong. The Zionists were very politically astute from the beginning and took whatever was offered them by the British/French, then the British, then the UN. They successfully lobbied the British and the UN to give them a piece of the holy land. The Arabs, thinking "no way is this going to happen" dug in their feet and didn't take part in the political process until too late. But there is blood on both sides. The fable that the Arabs just gave up their land peacefully is false. The prime example is the village of Derrassim (sp?). The was a large fraction of militant Zionists (who bombed the British at the central hotel - killed 17) who wanted to cleanse the holy land of the Arabs. In Derrassim they massacred over 100 men, women, and children - then went from village to village with loudspeakers on their cars threatening to do the same. Needless to say, people were scared and left, and the Zionists took over their property. So there's lots of blood on both sides. IMO the problems are the apparantly uncontrolable militant Arabs and the ruthless way the Israel government treats all Arabs, despite having a long history of oppression themselves.

Because I'm not clear on some of the specifics you're talking about, I can't reply. But on others - there are some specific mandates - right or wrong in your opinion - that federal and state land agencies have to comply with. These refer to sanitary facilities, public safety, and yes - handicap access. These have been mandated by the state and federal legislators. I guess you could lobby to have some of these changed. Otherwise the agencies do have to mange the parks and do some maintenance. The money has to come from somewhere - it ain't free. I have some problems with the trend of user's fees for public land also - but in the current anti-tax climate the agencies are caught between a rock and a hard place.

Christ, give it a rest already.

A CLASSIC EXAMPLE!!! You are correct Erik. Not to get the drift going too far - but there's lots of public services that are not funded by the user - police, fire, emergency medical, roads and bridges (more a dispersion issue). And there is the public good issue - but your point is well taken. As far as the land agencies - most of them are really down to bare bones right now - these are not lavishly spending agencies. I guess we could sell advertising space on the sides of the rocks, maybe that would help.

Not quite correct. State tax burdens are calculated in a number of ways. Per capita (WA 16th), per $1,000 income (WA 26th), state and local taxes as % of income (WA 11th), or the Cato Institue (libertarian think tank) policy analysis (WA 42nd), or a combination of the 4 (WA 27th). So it would be more accurate to say we're in the middle of the pack. As far as the Eyman thing - people were voting to significantly reduce discretionary spending. That combined with some earlier anti-tax votes is what has got us here. The agencies are scrambling for funding and it the people want pay as you go they will comply and add user fees. Wanna make a change - do the hard work and get political. Otherwise this is the wave of the future. Federal trails passes, snopark, DNR, Washington state parks, etc.

I check with a friend who's climbing gear and bike were stolen several months ago. Thanks.

Is a bit odd though. How the press just didn't question anything and the public just nodded their heads during the debate. Now, months later, and it's even more apparant that they lied the fallout is just beginning.

Rich and I decided to watch the Perseid from a good vantage point last week - atop Sloan Peak. We got dropped off at the Bedal Creek trailhead from a friend and stashed the mountain bikes in the woods Thursday afternoon. We got to the base of the ramp about 5:00 and scampered up before it got dark. There was only a slight breeze and it was fine with wind jackets and pants. Got a treat of the meteor showers - but the moon washed things out. We started down before dawn as it was so light, didn't use the rope just down climbed. A simple route but it was fun to be up there. Got on the bikes and pedaled to our friends house in Darrington. Wouldn't recommend this ride - seemed like a good idea at the time. Crummy downhill on gravel, then dusty Mt. Loop along the river. Took time to swim in the Sauk to wash off some dust. Beats working.

Hey, we speak fucking Ameri-can here, boy!!! Just trying to prep you. It's one thing to be the gringo but you don't want to be the zote gringo and the mark.

Buena suerte. Adonde va? Me gusto Americano de Latino, la gente esta muy gracioso e la pais esta muy bonito.