Fairweather

Still no reply? I can only assume fee enforcement is one of the objectives of the "mountain stewards". Can you clearify?

I went to a public meeting on this proposal over 3 years ago in North Bend. There were over 30 people present and there was overwhelming support for keeping the road OPEN. Since then the USFS has tried to let the issue fall off the radar. I have received no mailings from USFS re this issue since I submitted my comments against closing the road. I can't help but wonder if my "official public comments" (yes, they were civil and informed) weren't torn up and thrown in the trash. Just goes to show the futility of negotiating with the "let wilderness take over" crowd. "Compromise" with these folks = lost access for YOU. Opening up the Middle Fork Trail to mountain bikers and horses is just a bone they're throwing to placate those who might dare question the wisdom of this decision. This "bone" will be retracted in short order ("No Bicycles/Horses" signs to be posted three of four years from now) [ 04-09-2002: Message edited by: Fairweather ]

Hopefully, these stewards will be for education purposes only and not charged with enforcing the "Volcano Pass" or "Adventure Pass" or any other variant of the Fee-Demo Program. (??)

quote: Originally posted by glen: Ever notice how much page space Mounties guidebooks spend trashing on everyone who doesn't exactly conform to their textbook ideals? ie, mountainbikers, ski areas, etc... Granted some of the soapboxing may be warranted, but keep it outta the guidebooks. The darker side of the Mountaineers touchy-feely syndrome... I agree, Glen! Much of this "soapboxing" comes from Mr. Harvey Manning (author) and is the big reason I look for alternatives to Mountaineer books. (ie: Falcon Pub) Mr Manning comes across as an extremist who would ban motor-drives on cameras in wilderness areas if he could. Reading his rantings in Mountaineer Books is just too much to bear. Their 100 Hikes series should be re written by a more moderate voice. I know slamming 'ol Harvey is blasphemy of the highest order within the club, so my flamesuit is now on.

quote: Originally posted by kevin page: Yeah, that'd be a great trip. We went in for nine days and climbed Christie, Seattle, Noyes, Meany, Barnes, Queets and then Olympus. We did Queets from DR Pass so I don't know what the glacier route is like. When we were in the upper Queets basin I was too busy watching a massive herd of Roosevelt elk below us and taking in the scenery to consider climbing Queets from that side. I'd say take route descriptions for everything you'll be hiking by and climb whatever time and energy allows. Guidebook author Robert L Wood describes the Martin Lakes area below Christie as "one of the most beautiful alpine meadows in all the Olympics". That little glacier on Christie is beautiful. How was your climb? I've thought it would be neat to climb over Christie and Dellabarre into Muncaster Basin, and then down to Pyrites creek, finishing at the Enchanted Valley trail.

quote: Originally posted by kevin page: If you've got visibility at Dodwell-Rixon Pass then the route is easy to see and follow. No need for a rope or crampons when we were there in early August. Upper Queets basin is beautiful and I would reccomend camping there rather than near the snout of the Humes glacier. We only found a semi-flat, soggy campsite on the edge of an elk wallow near the glacier. Blizzard pass is obvious. Traversing the East summit is easy, the middle peak has the best crystal formations I've seen in ONP and is an easy scramble much like the main summit. We went out the Hoh but I'd liked to have done the summits with a day pack and gone back out the N. Fork Quinault. Kevin, Is this a reasonable itinerary? (for late June): Two easy days to Elwha BasinDay three; Elwha Basin to Queets Basin (??)Day four; Queets Basin to E,M,W summits and returnDay five; Queets basin to Low DivideDay six; Low Divide to NFQ trailhead How does Mount Queets via Queets Glacier look from the basin? Maybe this climb could be "sandwiched" in adding an extra day? Thanks for the info!

Since CO2 is a by-product of human respiration, and scientific studies have shown that this gas is partly responsible for global warming, I am going to sit very, very, very still from now on....and try not to breathe. ...now, you might reply, "But Fairweather! The CO2 that you exhale is so insignificant you are going overboard by not breathing!" To which I would reply, "Almost as insignificant as the amount of lichen and mosses destroyed each year by climbers?"

quote: Originally posted by Juan: My wife announced today that she wants to begin her post-ACL surgery climbing with a trip up Mt. Baker. She climbed it at age 16, and wants to go back. What is the best month for the N. Ridge? I've heard various reports about difficult glacier crossings to even get there. Any advice will help us as we set this up. Thanks much, John Sharp John, Not really a Baker reply..... I had ACL replacement 3 years ago. I was climbing within 4 months and was back to 100% (+) within 10 months. Had the hamstring graft type w/ "bio-absorbable" screws. Also, went to a soccer-oriented re-hab. (even though I've never played soccer a day in my life) Anyway, tell your wife her new knee will kick ass!

Don't get too freaked out Z. I'm sure we can and do still disagree on a good many issues. I liked your premise that humans too are part of nature, as I have often made this point in conversation. Unless one subscribes to the idea of a non-evolutionary origin for humans (such as literal creationism, or some sort of alien deposit) then one must accept that we, and everything we create and destroy, is also a "natural" process. (I do not believe this idea should ever be used as a cop-out to justify poor environmental stewardship!!!!) Your statement regarding the potential alienation of climbers/outdoor lovers when "lichen studies" and similar are used to limit access is prophetic. My current (mostly negative) view of modern environmentalism is in part, a product of this very type of "study".

Easy (looks hard, but isn't) snow apron...climb to top of snow, then traverse left on easy ledge for about 100+ feet. Then cut back right and up 2nd class to summit. VERY easy; don't be intimidated by first look from false summit. Has anyone here done Olympus from Elwha Snowfinger Queets Basin? Info appreciated.

Could it be??!! I actually agree with Zenolith.

O say, can you see by the dawns early lightWhat so proudly we hailed,at the twilight's last gleamingWhose broad stripes and bright stars,throught the perilous fightO'er the ramparts we watch'd, were so gallantly streaming? And the rockets red glare, the bombs bursting in air,gave proof through the night that our flag was still there. O say, does that star spangled banner yet waveO'er the land of the free and the home of the brave? [ 03-25-2002: Message edited by: Fairweather ]

quote: Originally posted by David Parker: Craftmatic, thanks for making me do my research. Seem there is are two sides to this story. Here are some web sites: Seems there is definitely a controversy here. You decide! Here's what I have always thought: http://www.olympus.net/personal/cline/goat.html Some "independent" research: http://www.igc.org/envreview/houston.html More research: http://www.consbio.org/cbi/what/goat.htm Pro goats: http://www.sunyit.edu/~millerd1/GOATS.HTM Let the Wolves do it: http://www.animalpeoplenews.org/97/2/wildlife.html David, Great links! I remember reading accounts of pre-1920's goat sightings, but until your post I could not cite any sources. They are magnificent animals, and seem to "be at home" in The Olympic Mtns. I wonder if genetic testing could determine if they are well-removed from modern specimens in other ranges from where they were supposedly transplanted. [ 03-25-2002: Message edited by: Fairweather ]

quote: Originally posted by Craftmatic: Me no eco-biologist, but exactly how did it come to pass that somebody "artificially" introduced goats into the Olympic Peninsula? It's not like they were inadvertently carried into the eco system on somebody's clothing. They were introduced into the north side of the range in the 1920's. The intent was to provide a trophy hunting enterprise. "Mountain Goats crave the salts in human urine, as well as in certain salty springs; many Olympic goats are brazen enough to enter camps to eat freshly urine soaked earth. In the process they demolish precious alpine turf, which is slow to heal such scars. To prevent this, urinate only on bare rock or gravel when in likely goat habitat....." from CASCADE OLYMPIC NATURAL HISTORY, by Daniel Mathews. I once stepped away from my pack to take some pictures while climbing Mount Stone. When I returned a large goat was licking the sweated salt from it. After about 10 minutes I attempted to retake my pack in a casual manner, but Billy would have none of that. He lowered his head and took one step toward me. I got the message, and he finished his treat a few minutes later. I got some great pictures out of the deal and no damage was done to my pack. [ 03-25-2002: Message edited by: Fairweather ]

What ASA film were you using? What type of camera? Were you shooting with a bright background? Did you bracket +2? The only time I've had a problem such as yours was when I shot Kodak 64 slides once (instead of Fuji50) in my old camera, and didn't realize my auto DX did not read ASA 64 and automatically defaulted to 400! I bought a Nikon N80 last year and have had NO exposure problems with or without filters. This camera is "way smarter than me". I love it!

I work as "management" (non-union) for a large corp and oversee union employees. As a right-of-center Bush loving (both kinds) Republican let me state that........... Manual labor, skilled and "unskilled", and factory/production line jobs SHOULD be union. Without union support our $20+/hr employees would probably be $9/hour employees. Additionally, I believe that unions protect aging employees. There are certain things a 20 yr. old can do that a 55 yr. old no longer can...at least not in the same amount of time. Without union support, older employees would be screwed. Where unions go wrong is the fact that they still don't seem to understand why American business is going overseas. When a company tells a union, "we can't afford that kind of wage increase", do they honestly think it's a bluff? What protection does a union offer its members when that company closes its doors and goes overseas? None. I'm also curious as to why compulsory union dues can be used for political purposes against the wishes of individual members. This should be changed by law. I know dozens of Teamsters who would love to "opt out" of the political/financial network. I know a few school teachers likewise. Yes, unions are a BIG part of what made/makes this country great. And yes, non union employees like me DO benefit indirectly from unions. Were it not for labor unions the average living standards in the USA would be lower. Additionally, union pride is part of what makes union products/services (usually) superior. Unfortunately, lofty union wage demands combined with pathetic prevailing wages overseas makes the future of the American union worker questionable. My old American made Moonstone parka is almost worn out. What should I replace it with?

I believe a pyramid weighs less than two or three climber's seperate bivi sacks. (less weight per team) Additionally, two or three people in a pyramid is more comfortable than said bivi bags. Unfortunately, a grizzly bear took a liking to my old Choinard Pyramid up in Wrangell St Elias a couple years ago and I have yet to replace it.

Two weeks ago I was climbing Leuthold on Mount Hood... Today there is snow on my lawn, I'm eating a bag of "Cookie Parade" and washing it down with Coca Cola while I watch Saturday Night Fever on cable TV and look at this site to see who's flaming whom. With any luck I'll gain 5 or 6 pounds by Monday. I suppose I'll go the the gym later on, but right now I'm in a slump. When will spring arrive???

quote: Originally posted by Dave Schuldt: Yo fairweather- go skiing and stop whining. Get the good turns while you can. You're right Dave. I despise whiners, and in my post I'm whining for sure. Went to the gym and feel better now....maybe I will go make some turns tomorrow. ....Now...How to tell the wife...

quote: Originally posted by mattp: Thanks Rodchester. Along a similar vein, let me add that I believe we may not want to adopt Scott Silver and his Wild Wilderness organization as our torch bearer, either. While I am grateful for his efforts to bring this important issue to public attention, and I hope he sticks with it, I have also heard that Scott Silver may be a contentious fellow who unnecessarily alienates people. I suggest that if anyone is going to write their congressperson or call the Forest Service, they do at least some of their own research and do not simply cut-and-paste something from Wild Wilderness. Before undertaking political action, we should all think for our selves anyway, and your messages will be more effective this way, whether or not you have questions about Scott Silver's leadership and communication style. I have heard from Access Fund people that Mr. Silver was very divisive in the meetings between climbers and the Forest Service, and I've heard through the grapevine that he has taken stances against climbing (not just against bolting) in discussions of recreational access. Whether this is true or not, I am sure that many of you who would protest or write your congressperson about fee demo would not want to be seen as opposed to non-motorized recreational access on public lands, and I would suggest that you take every opportunity to clarify that you believe that this access should be protected and, as W noted, paid for with tax money or revenue from some other source. Good post Mattp. Just because one is against the fee demo, does not make them an ally (or foe) re: backcountry access. These two issues are completely seperate. I'm still on the fence about the fee demo, but if I had to jump to one side or the other right now I'd be against it on principle if not practicality.

quote: Originally posted by imorris: Trivial, but I thought that was called the "Black Spider". I believe the "White Spider" refers to the Eiger. Oops! You're right. Regardless, its a long freakin' way to fall.

As Alpine Tom wrote, Wyeast is fairly easy. However, you DO NOT want to slip in the Wyeast Chimney or go into it unprotected if the snow is mushy. It is almost 50 degrees with the "White Spider" lurking just below you. I've done it twice. Both times the last 300 feet "got me thinkin'".

quote: Originally posted by allison: "Fairweather"....different discussion group, different handle, same crackpot. I was on another board this guy used to frequent, but he got kicked off, for good reason too. Be thankful cc.com doesn't have an office for him to bother! Allison, If I recall, you're one of the main reasons the site in question was shut down! I was proud to be "kicked off" the site when it became apparent to me that this "trails organization" was no longer an organization that supported hiking, but rather had become just another anti-access "advocacy" group,(ie: their efforts to close Middle Fork Road) and that any dissenting ideas were regularly edited and/or censored. I wrote a letter to the board of this "trails organization" to this effect just before I was ejected. Yahoo! I have read your quirky posts here with interest but have deliberately avoided challenging your ideas even when it was apparent you were up to your old tricks. Lets leave it here and agree that our ideas are about 180 from eachother. I'm in no mood for a mud-fest with you. [ 03-14-2002: Message edited by: Fairweather ]

quote: Originally posted by Bug: When it was my business to advise candidates, there was a very common understanding. Sway the people who vote. Don't give a rip about those who don't. According King County Cross Tabulated Voter Analysis, 76% of all registered voters who actually voted in 2 or more of the last 4 elections were 45 or older. Drop the age down to 35 and you have 87%. Drop it to 25 and you have 99%.Now why do you suppose our voting populace tends to favor conservative, "give me mine now" kinds of ballot measures? Because they're all gonna be dead by the time we really pay the MAN.VOTE damn it! Is that why the State House, Senate, and Governorship are all controlled by DEMOCRATS? Washington State is a big blue "D" on the map of the USA. To shift the blame for our ills onto conservatives is chickenshit handwringing. Also, your assumptions attempt to portray that the 45&older crowd are overwhelmingly conservative. While this may fit a steroetype you hope to perpetuate, I doubt it is true here in Washington State. The surplus is almost gone (300m left) because lawmakers in Olympia are unwilling to make tough decisions re state employment levels. (You think there is a "state hiring freeze" in effect? Ask to see Gov Locke's signed decree....It doesn't exist. And DSHS is still hiring!) Revenues are down primarily because of this so called "recession" and the associated decrease in tax revenue. Olympia always threatens state park closures to leverage and/or intimidate their way to the next proposed general tax increase. I think the record on this tactic is crystal clear. ...."We'll make 'em pay. Lets close their favorite park!" [ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: Fairweather ]

Amen, Figger Eight.