Fairweather

I climbed Ruth on Saturday and saw skiers descending back down to Ruth Arm and also down into the Ruth Creek Basin. Looked like great snow. What a day! Trail almost melted out to Hannegan Camps (in basin below pass) but still quite a few snow filled gullies to cross along the trail. [ 06-25-2002, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: Fairweather ]

quote: Originally posted by AlpineK: quote:Originally posted by Dru: quote:Originally posted by Fairweather: where did you get your "50 years and glaciers in the lower 48 are gone" data? I think you might have read a few too many Greenpeace junk mailers. statistic cited in Sapiano, Harrison & Echelmeyer, J. Glaciol. V. 44 no. 146 pp. 119-135, and elsewhere. I summarized it as "50 years more or less". see original article for error bars. Ha ha Fairweather, how's that hook feel in your mouth. I'm sure all the science you agree with is free from political agendas unlike the science you don't agree with. Don't you think it's interesting how tobacco companies used to be able to find lots of scientists that thought cigarettes were harmless. Please AK, The similarity between the tobacco company "scientists" and human-causation global warming scientists are that they both represent a minority viewpoint. Last year 6000 members of the American Academy of Sciences sent GW a letter supporting the theory of human caused global warming. The media reported this with great fare....only they forgot to report that another 15,000 members refused to sign the letter declaring that no direct link could be established. I think it is you AK, who picks and choses his science. And as for Dru.....trolling; my ass. In all likelihood you weren't even aware your home country was balking on Kyoto. Why don't you petition your rep up there in the great white north before you cry about iceworms down here in the USA? .....and IF this was really just an elaborate ruse to lure me into your tawdry web of pointless winter-time debate....well then, you got me you crazy Canuk. [ 06-25-2002, 11:33 PM: Message edited by: Fairweather ]

Are you one of those guys who climbs non-volcanic 9000'ers? Shuksan Stuart Bonanza Maude Fernow 7 Fingered Jack Buckner Logan Goode Jack

Hey Dru! Why hasn't Canada ratified Kyoto? Has it even been submitted to your parliment? Maybe it's because your govt sees it as the joke it really is. Only difference is GW has the balls to come right out and say it while the "smug" Canadians let us take the heat. ....I think they're GLAD we're holding out!...takes some of the political heat off of themselves at home. Please go to http://unfccc.int/resource/kpstats.pdf to see a list of countries who see fit to judge the USA on this matter, but are themselves hypocrites. And please don't respond with the usual statistics....USA consumes XX% of the world's resources, yet has only XX% of the population, blah, blah. ...Last time I checked we were almost 40% of the worlds economy. By the way; where did you get your "50 years and glaciers in the lower 48 are gone" data? I think you might have read a few too many Greenpeace junk mailers. ...And if you're really looking at ways to twist the system; I always thought the ADA could be used effectively to temper the Wilderness Act or the ESA. [ 06-24-2002, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: Fairweather ]

Dr. Robert Yancee in Gig Harbor WA did my ACL replacement 3 years ago. He is fantastic! I can't even tell there was ever anything wrong with my knee. 100% + of the original. Good luck.

Climbed Shasta via Avalanche Gulch route on Wed, June 19th. Route in good shape with perfect cramponing snow above 10,000 feet. Some rockfall in the afternoon below Red Banks reported by parties earlier in the week. One broken shoulder according to the attendant at Horse Camp. Route is still 99% snow above Oberman's Causeway. The spring at Horse Camp is flowing nicely.

MRNP Super Jon Jarvis wrote a great piece in today's Tacoma News Tribune. http://www.tribnet.com Go to the "opinions" section. (June 11 ed.) This guy is a real breath of fresh air after breathing years of Bill Briggle. He makes the case that climbers are just a small portion of the SAR $$ spent each year. He was well regarded up at Wrangell-St Elias and it is nice to see his even-handedness down here as well. [ 06-11-2002, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: Fairweather ]

I don't dispute that the $15 permit is BS. I refuse to pay it to climb any of the volcanoes (except Rainier where the $$ seem to be well spent). My "just drop it" plea was re: snowmobile access.

isn't naptha one of those substances known by the state of California to cause cancer?

Sounds to me like Clare replied to your questions professionally and in good faith. You just didn't like the answers. How about (in this case) we do our part NOT to re-enforce our elitist stereotype in the public's mind....and let this one go.

Sloth, another point worth mentioning would be that NPR is taxpayer subsidized. I don't like my tax $$$ used to promote the anti capitalist drivel I regularly hear on NPR. If they want to slam our system they are free to do so with their own dollars. I don't see this same bias on public TV. Indeed, "Frontline" is one of my favorite shows. I think the NPR bias debate was over a long time ago. (even Erik recognizes it for goodness' sake!) If they are promoting a certain point of view, they should just say so...and pay their own bills like "right wing" radio does. Who is Fred Phelps? [ 06-04-2002, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: Fairweather ]

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I often wonder about the $$$$ quoted by media sources as the "cost of the rescue". For example, if a figure of $50,000 is quoted, this is generally accepted to be the cost of the helicopter, crew/manhours, NPS personnel involved, etc, etc. My question is this: What percentage of that dollar amount quoted as "cost of rescue" is incedental? After all, most of those paid rescuers involved were "on the clock" anyway weren't they? If the military air personnel involved weren't up rescuing Joe Climber would they not still be collecting a paycheck? Would their Chinook not still be consuming fuel doing training business? Would the NPS rangers involved be training anyway? Are dollar values assigned to volunteers?? Is the value of this hands-on training subtracted from future rescue costs? I don't know how the cost of a rescue is calculated, and I don't know if my questions are valid. But I suspect that when a figure is tossed out by the media like $50,000, the true cost of the rescue is much, much less. [ 06-03-2002, 10:37 PM: Message edited by: Fairweather ]

quote: Originally posted by slothrop: quote:Originally posted by erik: npr is liberal media, and of course they are going to use the most emotional/less then intelligent sounding people...makes for better news.... Big media is big media. There is no correlation between liberalism and sensationalism (ahem, remember Rush Limbaugh?). Slothrop, Rush Limbaugh readily admits his conservative bias. Additionally, he never claims to be a member of the "news media". His show is purely entertainment and opinion. NPR however denies it has ANY political tilt and passes off its soapbox editorials as "news". I do enjoy some of NPR's programing...if for nothing else than to provide me with balance and keep me abreast of what the "other side" is up to. Wasn't it NPR's Nina Totenberg who wished on-air that Strom Thurmond's children and grandchildren would be stricken with AIDS? ...So much for the "tolerance" of the left.

Heading up Tahoma Glacier in two weeks. The upper route looks great through binoculars. Any recent info or trip reports out there? Also, any generic info on the approach from Kautz Creek/ Indian Henry's/So Tahoma Glacier traverse vs. the more often done (?) Round Pass start?

Hey now! Don't be dissin' the OMCG. I like those charcoals...they leave you with a little thinking to do "on your own". Who wants a connect-the-dots type trip anyway? Additionally, this book is a handy size unlike the encyclopedia-like "Cascade Alpine Guides". ( Don't get me wrong! Beckey's books are awesome too! ) I think Olympic Mountain Climber's Guide is perfect. [ 06-03-2002, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: Fairweather ]

Many people assume that 100% of National Parks are designated Wilderness. This is not the case. I oppose snowmachine use in existing Wilderness Areas. However, use of these beasts in non-wilderness areas of our national parks is, and should be allowed to continue. Yellowstone is a HUGE park. May I suggest that the skiers are the user group with vastly more sruare miles at their disposal. Ditto, MRNP. Why the hell can't snowmachines use hyw 410 when it is closed in the winter? I've never driven, used, been a proponent of snowmobiles.....but we're not talking "new intrusion" here by these folks. We're talking about taking away something from a well established user group. We're talking sour grapes. We're talking elitism. Norman, I can sincerely appreciate your position on this matter. Indeed, I sympathize to a large degree. But re the photo posted above (skier and snowmachines)... what's to keep the skier from being the one kicked out of that scene? After all, he will likely be entering designated wilderness when he leaves the road, and his skis could be considered "mechanical" devices by some fringe/purist user group who could go on to petition the NP to ban these "machines" as well. Ditto snowshoes. I just think we need to live within existing rules and stop trying to torpedo the "other group". As for the impacts on wildlife....I am not well-read on the Yelowstone science, but I suspect that studies could be cited that support both sides of the issue. [ 05-25-2002, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: Fairweather ]

Thanks Wolfie, I'll use the link you provided to let the "Republicrats" know I SUPPORT continued use of snowmachines in National Parks with reasonable restrictions. ...Why is it you guys think the whole F-ing world sees things through your glasses? (!)

I like dogs. But only when well behaved and over 30 pounds. (Little dogs = cats.) Any dog that snarls at me will have it's muzzle duct-taped and its ribs crushed. However, in my 25 years of hiking/climbing, I have NEVER encountered such a dog. I think some of the bad-dog stories come from those who frequent roadside/car campground areas, or those who are just looking for something to be pissed-off about. I have found that the same hikers and climbers who have an excessive hatred of dogs are the very people who don't like to socialize with other humans just the same. My 2 cint.

I guess my bottom line is this: The vast majority of people who would oppose this ski area expansion, and whom you would count on to support your position, want nothing to do with "monkeywrenching". When you tolerate that kind of talk, or even show tacit approval for that type of activity, you destroy the very support upon which you must rely. Work within the system. Reject those who won't.

Winter, You are reading too much into what I wrote. I did not equate tree-sitting with terrorism. I DID attach that word to "Bug's" single word reply, "monkeywrenching". I never tried to draw a moral equivalent between 9-11 and burning down a ski lodge at Vail, although that act was clearly terrorism. I believe it was I that was trying to keep the thread civil by pointing out a reason why "your side" so regularly loses the debate. You stated that "no one ever gets hurt" by these people. Oh really? Then the Unabomber was a right-wing extremist??? If you are an attorney as your bio states, I am surprised by your sympathies. [ 05-17-2002, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: Fairweather ]

Given the terrorist tactics used in Vail when ski area expansion foes didn't get their way, the "monkey wrenching" comment was not appropriate in my view. Re: Hayduke Lives... The "eco-warrior" is nothing more than a coward who has placed him/herself above the law. [ 05-17-2002, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: Fairweather ]

quote: Originally posted by Bug: Monkeywrench. The above comment is why environmentalists fail to sway public opinion. Indeed, it is why many of you are viewed as kooks. As I stated above, I think this expansion idea is an outrage. But I think anyone who would suggest resorting to "monkeywrenching" (call it what it is... terrorism) needs to get a grip. I think "Winter's" suggestion of using the legal system is a bit more useful.

quote: Originally posted by Winter: Aw man, I almost don't want to get into this because it fires me up. They want to put a lift up to the wilderness boundary and remove the Tilly Jane trail, not to mention the amphitheater and "up scale" shopping amenities plus the 450 units of condos, houses, clearcuts for ski trails, etc. Conservation issues tend to solicit crazy spray on this site, but if anyone wants more info. or wants to do something let me know, because I'm either suing or thinking about suing just about everyone involved. Winter, You can count me as an ally in this matter. I've climbed Mount Hood close to 50 times and I've always looked at this mountain as a place where "man and nature meet", the south and southeast sides providing enjoyment for skiers with the north and west sides providing a more "natural" experience for hikers and climbers. This plan, as described, will upset that balance. Let's face it. Mount Hood and surrounding environs' are not "deep wilderness" by any definition. But this plan is a desecration. I've always stated my support for maintaining EXISTING wilderness access roads and trails, but this plan in a NEW encroachment. ...And while the MHNF ponders limiting access for climbers on this wonderful mountain based on subjuctive criteria like "solitude", they appear more than willing to permit physical environmental damage with this plan. What's next? A chairlift up Cooper Spur to the summit? Brian

Dick Gephart (D) gave an environmental speech about 3 months ago in which he chided the Republicans for their lack of support re: tougher CAFE standards. He then drove off in a large black Chevy Suburban. As for the stickering....what a bunch of knit hat, whispy bearded, skinny, sandal wearing, WTO protesting, dreadlocked, freaks. The vehicles they are stickering probably pump less soot and hydrocarbons into the atmosphere than the VW Microbus or 1973 Subaru that they themselves drive.