Fairweather

Given that you claimed a bridge once spanned The Queets in order to make your case against traditional access...and then later posted a plea for information about whether this mythical bridge ever existed (in another forum here on CC.com), I am compelled to ask you to cite your sources regarding this "80 acres" that is supposedly for sale beyond the washout.... Maybe I'm wrong, and this 80 acres does in fact exist??? I will anxiously await your posting of the source for this claim.

In another thread you claimed that this bridge once existed as fact to make your case against traditional access. Now you ask others to do the research you presented earlier as truth?? I see a pattern developing here....

Peaches come in a can! They were put there by a man! In the factory downtown....

I'm movin' to the country. Gonna eat me a lot of peaches.

Going on 20 years of marriage...to the same woman. We got married very young, and had kids right away even! She skis, plays tennis, day hikes, but doesn't climb. While driving to Oregon last weekend an old 70's song came on the radio by "Sly and the Family Stone" (think funk, here), with a verse whose words hold the secret to marital success: I want ta thank you- For lettin' me Be my-self.... Thanks Sue!

Damn! We have plans to climb Stuart/Sherpa Glacier Sat/Sun. Now scrambling for more info or a solid "plan B". Skiing on Ruth Mtn this Monday, anyone?

5 points for whoever can identify what the "YEEAAHHGG!!!" is in reference to. Notice also, Mr Dean's attire!

His wife sure doesn't look too enthusiastic about his ambitions. You know, she used to be a Republican. Was even registered as one until about two years ago, I've read. Although Kerry's mastery of the English language is superior to GW's, I do not consider him to be more intelligent. GW beats Kerry by a mile when it comes to focus and convictions.

Although John Kerry is a complete moron, he is a stable man and if he is elected president I will still sleep well at night. If John Kerry is elected I will proclaim "The people have spoken, John Kerry is now our president". I can say the same for most other democrats.... with a few exceptions: 1) Howard Dean: a complete lunatic 2) Ralph Nader: a socialist 3) Clarke: Think Dr Strangelove. He scares me more that any of the others on this list. An egomaniacal button-pusher. 4) Hillary Clinton. I'm thinking of a bizarre cross between Imelda Marcos and Joseph Stalin. ...and now, add Al Gore to the "looney list". Too angry to ever be president.

You're finally seeing the light, AK! ALPS was a major agitator for the upcoming Middle Fork Road closure. They also have threatened lawsuits against USFS administration to prevent the use of chainsaws to clear blowdowns on trails within The Alpine Lakes. These guys are NOT friends of the larger climbing (or hiking) community.

Perhaps you should read liberal columnist Maureen Dowd's take on Mr. Gore's speech yesterday. I've highlighted a portion that probably applies to many here..."The Wackadoo wing of The Democratic Party". Thank God that Al Gore is not president of The United States. I believe now, more than ever, that the man has serious mental defects. Sounds like even the "Bushie"-hating liberal, Maureen Dowd is scratching her head about Gore.... OP-ED COLUMNIST Marquis de Bush? By MAUREEN DOWD Published: May 27, 2004 An outraged president called yesterday for the immediate resignations of Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, George Tenet, Condoleezza Rice, Douglas Feith and Stephen Cambone. Unfortunately, it wasn't the president in the White House. It was the shadow president, the one who won the popular vote. Thundering at New York University about the man the Supreme Court chose over him, Al Gore said, "He has created more anger and righteous indignation against us as Americans than any leader of our country in the 228 years of our existence as a nation." Holy Nixon! The former vice president accused the commander in chief of being responsible for "an American gulag" in Abu Ghraib, as depraved as anything devised by the Marquis de Sade. It was hard to tell whether President Bush would be more offended by the sadomasochism or by the fact that the marquis was French. Mr. Gore blasted the administration's "twisted values" and dominatrix attitude toward the world: "Dominance is as dominance does." "George W. Bush promised us a foreign policy with humility," he said, in one of the most virulent attacks on a sitting president ever made by such a high-ranking former official. "Instead, he has brought us humiliation in the eyes of the world." (He did not ask the neocon cabal ringleader, Dick Cheney, to step down, perhaps in a spirit of second-banana solidarity.) John Kerry's advisers were surprised and annoyed to hear that Mr. Gore hollered so much, he made Howard Dean look like George Pataki. They don't want voters to be reminded of the wackadoo wing of the Democratic Party. They would like Mr. Gore, who brought bad karma to Mr. Dean with his primary endorsement, to zip it and go away. But more and more Democrats think it is Mr. Kerry who should zip it and go away. Mr. Kerry has made a huge $25 million ad buy in recent weeks, believing that the better voters know him, the more they'll like him. But many Democrats fear he's one of those supercilious/smarmy candidates (like Al Gore) for whom the opposite is true: the more you know him, the less you want to see him. They wonder whether Mr. Kerry should just let the campaign be Bush vs. Bush. As the president's old running buddy, Lee Atwater, used to say, don't get in the way when your rival's busy shooting himself. Couldn't the Democratic standard-bearer use a William McKinley front-porch strategy, talking only to those who bother to show up at his front porch? After all, Mr. Kerry and his wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry, have five front porches, stretching from Sun Valley to Nantucket and Georgetown. Mr. Kerry, once a critic of campaign financing abuses, had toyed with the idea of not accepting the nomination at his nominating convention so he could spend even more in contributions. While he announced yesterday that he had dropped that belittled idea, maybe he just didn't take the plan far enough. Maybe he shouldn't go down from his town house on Beacon Hill to the Fleet Center at all. The conventioneers may be more galvanized if they focus on vividly vivisecting Mr. Bush, instead of being dulled to distraction by Mr. Kerry, waving stiffly in his Oxford-cloth shirt, trying to be all things to all people all the prime time. The Democrats are already excited to see the Republicans acting as fractious as they usually act. The president did look a little rattled during his finger-in-the-dike speech at the Army War College on Monday night, as he promised to give the Iraqi people the gift of "a humane, well-supervised prison system." It was hard to tell if it was the subdued response of the military audience, the only group forbidden to criticize the commander in chief, or if it's beginning to sink in: this is one mess that no amount of power and privilege, or unending terror alerts, can get him out of. (Mr. Bush's speech about the Iraqi makeover, as he wore all that makeup, couldn't even pre-empt the more convincing makeovers on "The Swan" on Fox.) Or maybe it was just the dread at knowing that the next morning he had to call Jacques Chirac and cry "oncle" on Iraq. That's enough to give anybody mal de mer.

Speaking of liberal radio, I hear that the new "Air America" (Al Franken, host)is having trouble making their payroll, has breached contracts with affiliates, and listenership is abysmal. Maybe Right-Wing radio is a success because it is entertaining, (sometimes) informative, and financially self supporting. Does j_b really believe that 65% of America is left-leaning? The facts don't support this. Please cite sources. (Pref. not "village voice", "salon.com", "workers world", "onion", etc.) BTW; I like NPR, but if you believe it is center, or right-of, you'd better check and see just how far to the left you have drifted!

Question for Gotterdamerung: Have you had any dealings with The Kurds? What are your thoughts? I am worried that these people are going to get screwed when we eventually pull out. It seems like they have upheld their end of the deal they made with us. I don't feel comparable angst for the Shea or Sunni. Should I?

Actually, it's pronounced "fucking hippies".

I'll see if I can find my copy, but first I must report your anti-real estate writings to the Tri-Lateral Commission, The Builderburgers, The Masons, and my local Remax agent. They will be most interested in your attitude, my paranoid friend. The Dose is ripe for the taking! And only you stand in our way!! Mwwwa ha ha ha ha...

I think we're on the same page regarding trailhead access. Unfortunately, you are still a liberal hippie.

"East-coast John" continues his uneducated rants about wilderness preservation here in the PNW.

Oly, My desire for maintaining the access status quo is two-fold: 1) Personal. I do not believe maintaining current access is in any way damaging to the overall environmental picture. Additionally, I want to take my children, and eventually, grandchildren to the areas I have visited and loved so much. Eventually, unrepaired road washouts will make this difficult to impossible in this ever-busier world. Which leads me to an even more important reason... 2) If existing roads fall into disrepair, so too eventually will the trails. An apathetic public, not having experienced first-hand the beauty of places like ONP, will not likely be stirred to action when these areas are threatened again at some future time, the roads and trails having been long forgotten. Ira Spring also makes a similar compelling argument in the link provided by Sailboi: http://brinnonprosperity.org/letters/ira_spring_letter_dose-repair.gif I do not support ANY new road construction/incursions into wild areas, I just want existing access maintained. I know that although you and I have divergent views politically, we share a love of the Olympic backcountry. Mountains are a powerful bridge.

CJ, This has nothing to do with the national park directly. The road repair in on national forest land. Non-wilderness designated, no less. Granted, still public owned, but who the hell is this guy who flies out here every 3 or 4 years....and tells me I should just 'let nature take over' re: road washouts? I guarantee you I spend more time in Olympic, and appreciate it at least as much as this pompous enviro-speak drone from New Jersey! Now he's going to pull this 'father knew best' east coast natter regarding the creation of North Cascades National Park?? WTF?? The guy should just go back to doing what New Jersey does best....making salsa.

I've hiked and climbed throughout the Olympic Mountains for virtually all of my 42 years. I was born and raised here. I've lived through the Washington Wilderness Act, the establishment of over a dozen new wilderness areas in the state, the Spotted Owl controversy, dozens of road washouts...and repairs, the enviro-sanctioned burning of public shelters, and on, and on. My children are now enjoying the beauty of this state, and The Olympic Range in particular. Your premise that the creation of NCNP in 1968 was opposed almost "unanimously" by state residents demonstrates how little you know about this region. I am considerably annoyed that someone who resides on the east coast (New Jersey, no less!!) of this great country has the kahones to lecture those who live and breathe here about the ethics of wilderness access. We're not talking about an open pit mine here, John. And contrary to your idiotic theory about some evil real estate cabal, reopening this road really is about restoring traditional access.

You live on the east coast and presume to tell us how to live and what wilderness values are? Then you have the audacity to ask for info regarding the Stone Ponds Traverse on another thread? I'll tell you what....The road has been decomissioned. Environmental lawyers will not allow a repair to be completed. Wilderness values 'n all, ya know. Stay home.

John, I suspect your post is facetious, so I will propose that it is you that is the elitist. I'm sure you have lots of extra time to spend weeks upon weeks in the mountains, but many of us who work for a living don't. Additionally, I don't consider walking down an abandoned road for a full day "hiking" per se. I too support the eastern Olympic wilderness areas that were set aside in the 70's and 80's....which is why I would like to see access maintained for all. Not just a few elitists who talk much and work very little - and would have our wilderness areas become their private country club by excluding as many people as they can vis a vis the decommissioning of roads.

...Olympus? I think you have your posters mixed up. As far as your comments, I would not bring two sets of footwear to Olympus, but would likely wear my midweight Technica Bioflex boots with some lightweight Stubai crampons. A situation where I would wear trailrunners and carry full boots (like the Nepal Extremes) would be something with a four to six mile approach like Baker or the Emmons Glacier on Rainier. Additionally, I would never wear trailrunners down a very steep or rocky trail while carrying a climbing pack. Thanks for your 'advice' though.

I have owned a pair of these for about 4 years now. They are great summer mountaineering boots, but I have had very cold feet on winter climbs including two numb toes on Leuthold that took a couple months to wake up! While I like the stiffness of the soles, the lateral and back-leaning support in the ankles is very soft, especially compared to plastics, so they are not as fast on the downhill side of a climb, but they are fantastic for climbing 'uphill' on snow/ice. They are about one pound lighter than plastics and are great for 'packing' along on an approach where trail runners are worn. My .02