Fairweather

Sorry, Dave. They're still running the show.

Well, now we all know who got picked on in high school.

If there were iron-clad guarantees that 100% of this oil would be used for domestic markets and not subject to British oil industry development and subsequent export to asia, I would likely support this proposal. If I have read truthful accounts, north slope oil is not currently being used exclusively for US consumption and there is, therefore, no reason to believe ANWR would be any different. Absent these controls, I think it is a mistake to go forward with ANWR drilling. We should not be exporting one drop of domestically produced oil. I think the migration away from SUV's toward higher milage vehicles has already begun due to market forces. I know that many climbers and hikers could do a better job setting the example in this regard, but of course, they "need" these vehicles more than the soccer mom taking the team to practice.

Me gold and plunder were long ago bartered for promissory notes, and me ship is about to be repossessed by a chinese banker. Argh.

Too skinny. Needs bigger breastsus. And I don't like girls with abs more defined than mine. But, ah, you know, ah, if my wife said it was ok.....maybe just once......

I wouldn't nuke you. Only the real enemies of democracy....who refuse to put magnetic ribbons on their SUV's.

Does she come with a bag of flour?

I'll be needin' those launch codes.......

Only if I can be captain for the next 3 1/2 years. Hehe.

Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained.Re: Socail Sucurity Explained. Yea, Dave... George is a real dork! He can't even spell very good or nothin'!

I thought after a four year hiatus, you were capable of civil debate, but your "If you are going to argue this with facts, please use actual ones rather than ones you made up" snipe indicates you're just not ready.

If you are going to argue this with facts, please use actual ones rather than ones you made up. Calm down there, little miss. I believe I clearly stated, "I could be wrong". Since neither of us are lawyers, I would point out that the 'solitude' value you cite relates to the qualifications for an area to be considered for wilderness status. I would also point out that "oppurtunity for solitude" is, again, rather ambiguous.

Marylou, if you have the third (most recent, copyright 2000) edition of 100 Hikes in Washington's North Cascades Region, turn to page 141 and read Harvey's rant. It is three pages long, so I won't post it here, but his proposal is promoted by The North Cascades Conservation Council. Harvey sums up his Cascade River Road closure proposal with this: "Make no mistake, it will be achieved, one way or another." As for 'bicycles', as you well know, they weren't in any way present on trails back then. Hell, they were barely stable enough for pavement.

I hear you. But some might call that backlash. ?? Marylou, the solitude provisions in The Act are very ambiguous. Words like "should" and "must". Furthermore, I find it hard to believe that in 1964 the distinction between motorized and mechanized was part of the debate. I badly want to see the original document - not a suspect web version. I can't believe that mechanized was the original language 20 years before the advent of the mountain bike, and I can think of no other reason that specific word would be used as it relates to wilderness usage back then. ...but I could be wrong on this one.

Dark divide protection is the darling of Harvey Manning, who has been trying to rid the area of motorcycles for decades by promoting wilderness designation. This is the same Harvey Manning who wants Cascade River Road closed. Harvey writes books and makes $$$$. Harvey tells everyone how to get to the trailhead in his books, then complains that there are too many people infesting his mountains and loving them to death.

I love existing wilderness areas and want them to remain as they are, but with recreational use rules relaxed just a bit. For those here who frequent the Olympic Mountains, you certainly can appreciate how the "buffer wilderness" areas along the eastern border of ONP (Buckhorn, Brothers, Mount Skokomish Wilderness Areas) afford justifiable protection that does not exist on the west side of the park, where clearcutting and logging roads come right up to the boundary. Ditto, the Clearwater and Norse Peak at MRNP. Can you imagine Mount Adams or Glacier Peak without their designated Wilderness protections? Goat Rocks? I shudder to think. Where many proponents of designated wilderness cross the line involves the social arena. And this is where I jump ship. Once an area has been protected from the chainsaw, the shovel, and the drill, why do so many self-proclaimed purists insist on imposing their religion upon the newly saved acerage? Solitude. Mechanization prohibition. And the famous let nature take over lawsuits to prevent trail and road (read: access) repair. The only tool I have as a citizen to promote my moderate agenda vis a vis wilderness recreational use, is my witheld support of expanding the lands designated as such, writing my representatives, and promoting my beliefs in forums like this. Unfortunately, many, if not most self-described environmentalists hold the position if you're not with us, you're against us, and the insults fly as evidenced here, in this very thread.

Despite the somewhat violent, ill-willed knee-jerk responses to my post from the likes of Mr Rose, I am happy to say that I wholly support the existence of wilderness areas. If anyone would actually take the time to read what I said....and not what they think I must mean...they would understand that I simply have issues with some of the finer details of The Wilderness Act itself, and until these issues are resolved I don't want to see any more areas established. The ignorance regarding designated wilderness here is stunning, especially amongst supposed supporters of new areas. Catbird's post is a case-in-point. How many here realize that it is legal to hunt in a designated wilderness area? Horses and dogs? No problem. Existing mining and grazing claims? They are grandfathered in forever. But mountain bikes? Forget it! Clearing windfalls on trails? Better ask the local wilderness club lawyer first! And let's make sure that the local anti-social types have a strictly regulated place where they can spend days and days without seeing or having to otherwise interact with anyone else.....'solitude'.

Maybe you should examine how you separate political beliefs from personal and climbing relationships. I know dozens of climbers and hikers who believe The Wilderness Act goes too far. Especially as it relates to 'solitude' and non-motorized access. Was that your party trundling rocks down on us on The Brothers Sunday? Was that your lone white Mitsubishi Montero SUV, license plate number xxx xxx (I have the actual number) with the I vote for the environment bumper sticker at the Lena Lake trailhead Sunday night? Mr Rose, maybe you'd like to knock some sense into me all by yourself - without the aid of gravity and a shower of 30 lb rocks? I can tell you're one of those violent enviro's I love so much. What a loser.

I haven't had a chance to fly on the 777 yet. Those engines are freakin' huge. Haven't heard from you for a while! How's that CO snow? You'll be pleased to know that I am a new member of the 30+mpg car club! BTW, I forgot to ask MalCon about those Airbus composite vertical stabilizers!

Wow. A space station module that isn't even in place yet....and a website. How's that missile defense system going? Since you're not interested in ours, I thought maybe you'd now be starting your own up there, eh?

I think that was his point, more or less.

How's Canada's space program these days, eh?

I believe the Hyguens Probe that went to Titan was pretty simple as far as space vehicles go. It was launched off of the mostly American-built Cassini probe by a spring! This euro-success is akin to throwing a disposable camera out the window of a Lincoln Navigator, IMHO. And how are the euros' doing with their Mars exploration these days? What are they now...one successful orbiter and a half-dozen failures? As far as the 'Airbus biggest plane'... that can only land at a half-dozen airports in the world and guzzles more fuel per passenger than the new Boeing 787?? That's your euro-centric progress?

To the three climbers who camped at Lena Fork in a Gaurada tent last night and were the only other party on The Brothers Sunday: Don't ever let me meet or see or otherwise have contact with you. It will be bad if I do. We were the party 1000 feet below that you tried to kill by repeatedly trundling garbage-can sized boulders down the south couloir as you whooped and laughed from the large ledge just above/left of The Hourglass. Only after repeated shouts over a 10 minute period did you cease your drunken binge. Some of the boulders you were releasing started secondary slides, one which showered the area directly above us with car-battery sized rocks. Thanks. What were you thinking? This is a popular route and it is only sheer luck that other parties weren't present to dodge today's version of "fun". Your continued presence above us in the couloir made the area unsafe. Although we could have easily caught up to sloths like you and had words, we turned around. My somewhat religious brother-in-law and his 18 year old son are the only reason your unoccupied tent did not end up slashed, crapped in, or urinated on when we returned to your camp. Instead I gently placed a 10 pound rock at the peak of your tent to remind you that we were not pleased with your performance today. If you read/post here...which I doubt... try taking some common sense with you on your next mountain adventure. And fuck off.

Hmmmm.... Seek counseling? Exercise more? Consume only the calories daily that your body needs to maintain the proper weight? Take a little responsibility for yourself? Mebbe try some compassion bro, some folks due to genetics, rare illness or thyroid issues cannot and are doomed to suffer. Granted the bulk of the US is obese due to ignorance, laziness, lack of will/spine, education, etc etc but there are some folks the cannot and will never apply too. I am assuming your condescending comments are not directed at them My comments were not condesending. Some of the posts made by others were. I was simply making the point that a politically correct, bleeding heart approach will likely not work for this woman, and quite possibly will prolong her condition. The likelyhood that this woman suffers from a genetic condition is remote given the obese nature of our nation, and even if this is the case, my comments were directed at the hopelessness of posts like yours made in the subject's name. When all else fails, maybe a little shame is the right prescription?