slothrop

Ok, I can see how that's a bad deal. Establishing a moderate route with needless runouts while putting bolts every bodylength on your sick proj... hmm... kind of a tough problem. Perhaps the FA was just saving time and money on bolts by running it out on "easy" ground. Not exactly a thoughtful way to establish a route. If a less bold or more safety-conscious climber had gotten there first, things would be different. I guess I side with the FA and would seek permission from him/her before adding bolts. I don't see why a crag route shouldn't be established so that protection is always available to keep you from hitting the ground. But is that what was going on at Dishman? I thought the issue here was retrobolting routes with available natural protection. Lack of a bolt does not constitute a runout if there is other pro available.

You mean you have to use bolts AND GEAR on the same climb? Whoa. My mind is reeling. Is that sport or trad? I'm so confused.

Roads aren't a one-time expense. Your question should be "Why build a road and not pay for its annual maintenance cost?" Maybe there was money once, but there isn't much now. MRNP has already raised the climbing fee, why ask them for more fee increases to fund an unnecessary project? I don't know what it's like in the context of national parks or similar scenic areas, but opening more roads has been shown to merely increase traffic on those roads, not necessarily draw traffic away from other roads. I sure don't want to see a damn burger stand at Mowich Lake.

Yeah. Sorry, RuMR, I just don't see what you're saying about "respect". If you can't climb it as it is, why not look elsewhere, or get better? There are already more moderate climbs around the PNW than you could climb in your lifetime. And your "all sport or all trad" argument, what was it again? A guidebook can certainly describe what protection is useful on a route that has both bolts and natural pro, if you're uncomfortable just taking a small rack up anyway.

I heard the Turtles described once as "a bunch of drunks, but now they're all married 'n shit". That's all I know.

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Word to that, jon. Even crappy little crags can be nice natural getaways. That's partly why you're there, right? To get away from your regular life and do something fun/relaxing/challenging in a pleasant setting. It's sad to desecrate a place like that, even if it's not pristine. Beautiful things don't have to be perfect. Just show a little respect and you can make the most of what every climbing area has to offer. Trashing someplace just because it's a little shabby already is like kicking a guy who's down. Weak. Why not clean things up instead?

No, I think climbs like this can be examples of responsible bolting. Why not use the available natural features for protection when it's available? I'll clip bolts when they're there, but it offends my sense of aesthetics to see them next to cracks. It's as if the bolting party had no imagination and no respect for the natural line. I don't know where you get the idea that a climb has to be either fully bolted or totally free from bolts. I say you should use the kind of protection appropriate to the features of the rock. The "trad" vs. "sport" distinction is stupid. If you're too lazy to bring a rack (10 pounds on your back for the 5 minute approach is good training), that doesn't give you the right to bring the climb down to your level through unnecessary bolting. Just climb something else, something you don't need gear for. Or go to the gym.

Word. We should do the south end of Lake Washington next week.

He be lifting up and throwing your V18 projects.

Coffee makes me twitchy when I haven't been drinking it. With green tea I barely notice any stimulant effect. In my experience, cramps happen more often when I haven't warmed up enough before pushing hard, or when going from a hard uphill sprint to a dead stop (i.e., not cooling down properly). I bet this is related to the need to flush lactic acid. When you haven't warmed up and dump lactic acid into your blood, it gets "stuck". When you have been generating lactate and then stop moving, it gets stuck again because you've stopped the muscle movements and increased blood circulation associated with exercise, which had been helping to clear out the lactate. But I'm just speculating...

Yeah, I'm down. Same route? I could meet you somewhere along the way toward I-90 since I live on Cap Hill.

Great article! It's good to read a factual and positive viewpoint on the costs of climbing rescues. I'm glad that the MRNP rangers can exercise discretion in choosing to perform a rescue or not. Makes sense to me.

I'm up for this kind of thing. Just did the Mercer Island loop last night. I don't have a multicolored jersey, but I wear the bike shorts now and then. Does that make me bisexual?

Bump.

Care to elaborate? Or is it just cool among the Luddites to be a naysayer?

Dunno, not my site. They do host some of my clients' sites, though.

webintellects.com is quality, $10/month.

That first one's pretty sweet. Must be fun in the mountains right now...

Hence the "". Good luck in your attempt to not ski Mt. Baker this weekend.

Five abortive "attempts" to climb NF Chair this past winter. Never even left town. Partner couldn't get off work, freezing levels never dropped, had to work, etc. etc. etc. Why is my timing always so bad?

Fer cryin' out loud... there are two parties in need of rescue on Liberty Ridge. Just saw it on the news. Good luck to the climbers and rescuers.

Maybe Allison doesn't mean illegal in the sense of not having UN "authorization" (whatever that is... I think the UN can only grant greater legitimacy by authorizing a military action). Maybe she means illegal in the sense of no declaration of war being made, something that's required by the Constitution. I think that's a murky, gray-area subject, since nation-states aren't what The Terrorists belong to, but certainly the Constitution does not allow for the fighting of an open-ended war with a penciled-in list of enemies and a blank check for a budget, like the good ol' GWOT.

You don't need protection from a threat that isn't there. When was the last time in the past 200 years that Canada has been attacked by any foreign power? When has Canada failed to bend over at the "suggestion" of the US gov't that they do something? Didn't Canada send thousands to die in World War II? Your "security" sounds like "protection" of the Sicilian variety.