Drederek

This site is pretty well run IMO. I like the fact they let us embarass ourselves. I usually read my posts a couple times before I submit. Its not total anarchy but it definitely leans in that direction. Almost everyone says a few stupid things at first but soon learn what flies and what doesn't. When you're out climbing something and most everything says stop, retreat, come back another day most listen. These clues can keep you alive - ignore them too many times and things will end badly. I hope ignoring the obvious clues is only something the subject of this thread does while sitting in front of the computer.

Now we know where Zoolander got "Blue Steel"!

To your folks! Sorry could not resist. I read a little further down and indeed the franchise fee is being used for things other than climbing, it just disappears into the base fund and gets used for just about anything.

Theres another ozone as well!

It seems trash is in the eye of the beholder. My perception of trash and the ways I cope with it change. Some days I pick up the bits of trash alongside the trail, somedays I walk on by. If I think a route in the wilderness is overflagged I'll remove some or most of it. I hate braided trails in the desert. If I have to I'll shit in a hole and bury it. I don't believe bolts are trash. I don't like seeing draws hanging off them. I prefer chains at the top of climbs to a wad of slings around a tree but I'll use whatever is there. Getting out into the wilderness and onto the rock is always going to do some damage, I'd like to think I keep it to a level that is sustainable or better. The opinions of demagogues are indeed trash!

I read all of yours. They didn't say much. The pot calling the kettle black! God I love this place!

I'd say your latter sentence is the perfect defense for the former. Yah, ignorance is bliss.

Its easy to have an opinion about how to bolt (or not bolt) a particular line, its not so easy to defend that opinion. People go out and put up routes in whatever style they think is best at the time. We will judge them as we see fit. They may not be happy with our judgements. These discussions are important so future routesetters will have an appreciation of the spectrum of styles and their reception by our small segment of the climbing community. And then they'll do whatever the fuck they think best as they always have!

Winning a flame war on the internet is like winning an event at the special Olympics .... still no winner here!

Nice trip, I never made it up that way this year, how did the burnt areas look?

Way to get out and get some while the weather held and thx for pics. You certainly made it look like a great day trip. Have you done the W ridge of Stuart? If so how does this route compare?

Sorry to folks with problems but I think this is funny! AC - don't forget to add a couple feet for every time you bend over and retie yer shoe!

Ran into some fellows from Issaquah at the city a few weeks ago, they seemed like nice kids if a little to eager to give up on rock climbing for the year.

Just for the record am I part of the 70%? While there are a few easy cracks there worth doing there are a great many really nice sport routes. If you have to ask whats good you probably haven't been there very often so I'd advise you to just go sporto your first few trips. Once you lose your enthusiasm for following the herd you'll have walked by and looked at many of the trad lines and perhaps decided some of them are worthy.

12 quickdraws

Would a good option be flying to Vegas and driving a rental car here?

I've always stayed in hotels in Vegas, usually older large casinos on the strip. We checked out the campground once and it looked grim and a bad place to be if its windy. In the dark on a calm nite its probably fine. If you're flying down camping is another piece of luggage. If you don't mind 1-2 hour hikes in you can get away from the crowds. Cat in the hat, Olive Oil, Frogland, Crimson Chrysalis, Solar Slab, Dark Shadows are all good but you'll be in a line because of the relatively short approaches. If you want to do a route with a tunnel on it try The Black Dagger on Brownstone Wall.

Thanks for the response, it'll most likely be next summer before I get down there but I certainly will. Until then I'll just have to pick up the appropriate guidebook and cultivate patience. Its good to know there are no nefarious reasons for locals to not want outsiders poking about.

What guidebook would you recommend to find and get around the Callahans? I saw some stuff on mtnproject and am interested in comparing it to our local world-class sandstone crag. I asked about it at a gas station on our last trip up from cali and yes the guy knew where it was and no he wasn't going to tell us. Whats that all about?

Did Gumby/Zebra/Zion about 20 years ago, last pitch was spectacular. One of the all-time greatest belay spots sitting in the lions chair with all the madness far below you.

Helmet (lt blue?) with brim of straw hat duct taped to it on the way to Shangri-La at CoR. I hung it on the bush the arrow points to. Straps a little chewed up but it otherwise looks OK. If its yours I wonder how many years its been out there.

Just another Coloradork trying to get on TV!

Finding out of the way crags with minimal directions is just part of the fun !

Thanks to all involved!!