Cpt.Caveman

No offense but both easy guesses.

Amen poncho. Alex- relax

If you have Windows XP you can do a system restore by date. It worked for me. It's shitty too if you dont. I would not be afraid if you are not erasing something important..

First of all Dru if you are not gathering the info for yourself then expect squat. Otherwise state so in order for people to take it seriuosly.. It was a good post full of controversey for some. Get over your "duties" Alex. I hope eventually it is answered in the "uhuh" type of way that it was ready for. Dru hang on - I think Jim's sending an email now because of your question This is the hottest item aboard... Yeah I just got the fax - they said there was *adventure*.

was supposed to be at the ropeup. Where was he

No offense to Mr Roper but damn that is a good name then.

and I normally don't fight other people's battles for them, but I suspect that Harry will let these comments from Ray go unchallenged. I can't. Ray, I'm afraid you don't know what you're talking about. Harry is an original researcher and has probably done every bit as much original research on the North Cascades as Fred Beckey. He has not simply relied on Beckey's work. Indeed, as I pointed out in my last post, Fred may have used Harry's work without adequately crediting him. I have tremendous respect for both Fred and Harry. If Washington were Japan they both would probably have been declared "national treasures" long ago. Your comments are uninformed. Fair enough. I can respect that. You obviously know more than I. But I felt compelled to intrusively investigate and charge where there was not much known. I have no regret in my remarks as they were respectable and thought out on my part. Some may disagree. My argument techniques change based upon factors. I never made any threatening response. Someone should give me a keg of beer. My apologies to Harry if he is offended. But as I stated there was nothing more than opinions stated on many areas. I was never the "silencer" as made out to be.... Harry is playing a small game. He nows........................

For Klenke. Forrest and . Harry, As I have repeated before I never endorsed any sort of silence. My arguments produce known facts and information as well as opinion. To decipher between is easy. If you disagree with the above then an argument or discussion should or might take place. As this has happened. I have targeted my arguments and comments. Most of them come ignored unless it is to Harry's advantage. Let this be known too. Within my comments a thing called an opinion as I mentioned. You might need to look that up again. My opinion is that Mr Majors is readily prepared to argue anything Fred writes. That is a known right. THis also produces facts and sometimes falseness. It should be accepted to argue. Also my opinion is that Mr Majors has a beef with FB in such a way he feels compelled\intent to degrade his research at any chance without any recognition to the fact that he would have nothing to dispute if Mr Beckey had not compiled most of the information for him. That said Mr Majors has stated many facts and introduced many gray areas of information here. But the way he goes about it is like he is now the master of history in the N Cascades with disregard to anyone else's previous work whether they were complete truth or not. Only time will tell. My responses in effect were only for people to recognize what I stated above and that is all. All you so called people that claim or imply I am trying to silence Mr Majors including harry yourself need to look yourself in the mirror and read a little closer. A major flamboyance of facts that have been previously been published are presented here by Mr Majors including much that has not been printed and is interesing I must add. Although he sometimes is the discoverer sometimes he is not. THis puts readers at "awe". It seems sometimes this is a clever way to persuade the readers here into believing Mr Majors has done much of the work that has been done for him. Including leads and who climbed what and who Mr Who is. I must appluad some of the facts and acknowledge his research about the Ptarmigans. This is new to me.. I reconginize and acknowledge he is an outstanding historian and writer. I am simply some dude. I respect the writings and research. But I dont have to listen and agree to what I may believe are half truths or snide attacks sometimes- whether they are implied or expressed. PS my final stage of this comment is that I was The ONE Person that suggested this come to a stage that was called a sticky note- Meaning worth reading. IF I WAS TRYING TO SILENCE HARRY MAJORS (READ) THEN I WOULD HAVE NOT DONE SO. It's fantastic the research that has been done by Mr Majors. But to keep it in perspecitve I have mady all my comments. That is all and it is simple.

Mr Perkins stated- Your argument is flawed. In one sense you imply it is ok to condone threats in a pm. In the other sense you imply that antogonizing after such a threat is even better or just the same. A threat is a threat. To paint a target on your back is not a threat all the time. Can we also argue that if you disagree with me it is now ok to antagonize? If they take licker then make sure it is of the white type- whiskey, rum or vodka. It mixes better. I am sure you remembered the shitty tequila with gatorade fest.

No need to pms will read it eventually if he wants to. Whether or not he feels the need to respond is up to him.. After seeing AlpineK's response it sums a lot up... Also there were no M ratings back then so that question is pretty much in a land of the lost. My guess is pms doesnt know m2 from m5 unless he reads some sort of online definition. But that would not likely stop him from answering in another rating or fashion. I'll be waiting for him to tell Dru to go play in Kindergarten though. It appears that they were not the only folks looking at the route- mentions of Donini and others.... -RB

Matt give up. JayB is in fact stating the best core argument in this thread.

Yes I think that would have been a little more appropriate.

I personally think it was silly to be deleted. Moderators should fucking take a day off. I also think the post was so detailed it seemed silly too. My guess is that you would or might get some vague answer like "Yep, we aided..." But I did ask some similar question like that before. I remember mention of a "good time" and alcohol and beer and whatever. Who knows maybe Kit had some

Forrest said I'm not upset

You need to turn this feature on. --Hint-- It is in the layers...

Let me re-iterate that Lage Wernstedt was a tremendous explorer of the North Cascades. This is all noted in Fred's Range of Glaciers where he makes numerous tributes to Lage and his explorations and surveys. Not once do you enter the Fred era where climbing changed and he makes a spectacle of himself. Although he is an authority to write on this era it is VERY unfortunate that he DID NOT! He has first hand communications with Herman Ulrichs and Lloyd Anderson as well as dozens of others. It appears to me comments made by Harry might retard this sort of idea or effort unfortunately. He will or may likely argue that it may surface in some diary but it is also my opinion that he is also a impeding historical reports.

John Roper said Mr Roper I understand you were an explorer in your own right. I definitely respect that and think that is outstanding. I have not climbed as extensively as you have in the Cascades and maybe never will. But I admire your persistance and climbing accomplishments as a fellow climber. What is your favorite route if I may ask? Beside the point I agree with Josh in the comments that Mr Majors seems intent to argue (although many times with facts) anything written by Mr Beckey. Let it be first identified that I have not seen such a complete guidebook for any other range than our home range. Also let it be known my facts I stated above. Furthermore I think that many authors for guidebooks admittingly have errors and changes to make and most books are not as complete. Fred is a clever man and when I say that he includes much more history references to mountains in his books and much more interesting reading not related to climbing or "historical facts now and then" that it gathers a person's attention. He knows how to write a good book that people may want to read. - Simplified- If there are errors then fine. But to approach them in the manner in which I am seeing by another here I can only identify with Mr Beckey's work and response. Fred does not respond with resentment, anger, or disprespect. He responds with work. Another note is that Mr Beckey has (as I tirelessly note) compiled much of the information for anyone to criticize. IN short he has done most of the work for anyone to do or look at. To criticize is good and maybe easy if you burrow into archives but to do so in a manner in which fosters a workable environment or respect does not always seem evident according to Mr Majors reports.

Mr Perkins for hip belaying my sorry sliding ass down a mountain where I could have been hurt or worse. Runner up- Mr Oleson - a non cc.com member but the ultimate nice guy that wakeboards and parties like and animal and is always in good spirits about a nice climb. The memories are the best. 2nd Runner Up- timL for being just the mellowist and nicest person to climb with. Also mainly ropegunning good pitches - although he did not ropegun any pitches this year we did to a trip and enjoyed it.

Don Serl wrote This place is the best spot and is open on sundays and is about 6 blocks from MEC and you can order online.

I understand that Mr Majors is also responsible for making the name of the "Quest Alb Glacier" for instance back into Indian name - 3 Fingers Mountain. Discuss - My guess - Harry never set foot on the glacier. On the things that Fred hasnt climbed- well he was busy climbing Mt Hunter and Deborah and all the ton of things in the Rockies and Coast Range. Tehipete Dome in california, Lone Pine Peak, routes in Zion, climbing in Baja california, Bugaboos, Selkirks, and elsewhere... I am sure he could have cared less about a chosspile like Bonanza or the technically easier Logan for instance. How about this one?- How many things has Smoot written up and likely never even seen?

Let me just say that I think the dude got around a little more than you have information on. But in the end I dont think he will be compared to Lage Wernstedt except by you it seems. They came from 2 different eras and climbing was a lot different in both their times. What is "your" definition of prominent peaks? While Mr Beckey may not have climbed all the prominent peaks in a given range I think is really unimportant to the discussion. Firt of all he is an expert in the range through nothing more than first hand experiences and climbs across many areas. It has nothing to do with his research skills or technique. From many vantages trails approaches and climbs it is possible to identify in person and also collaborate successfully gathering information for a guidebook or written history. ALthough some here may have climbed more summits his unique eye for a route or specific mountain feature to climb remains in agreement with many others as they repeat them. Of course there will be other reasons as well. Having said that as we all know no one person is capable of making zero errors when compiling the information that he has gathered and sought publication on such a large volume. THis included dealing with numerous editors, climbers, hikers, photographers etc. There are bound to be errors or disagreements, including possibly conflicting reports and information. After all this I also notice Harry spent a page or more criticizing Mr Beckey in one of his own writings. Although based on facts I am sure - there is still a hint of dislike or competition.

We slogged the left skyline. Class 2. This peak is just south of Mount Vera: http://bivouac.com/MtnPg.asp?MtnId=5854 http://bivouac.com/JavaMap7/JavaMap.asp?rq=PrepareApplet&DLat=51.898&DLng=125.958&Radius=5.5&EntType=Mtn&EntId=5854 We considered a climb on Mount Vera via the nice looking fluted slopes of the east face. But we got lazy. Mount Vera is likely unclimbed to my knowledge. It can easily be obtained from the summit of the Turtlehead via a ridge of rock climbing. Mount Vera appears to have 2 summits of nearly equal height (9300+ feet). They are very close to each other. T0 climb mt Vera would not be that hard if you were in the right position. From the Turtelhead the south face appeared to me something like the SR of Ingalls with good rock.

John Roper wrote That's nearly impossible in a verbal conversation sense. Although he has climbed many peaks and routes he may never divulge the information in numbers and statistics. I am sure he doesnt care and would never bother to research or report on it. Fred is not that sort of person. Even if he had the info it would not be passed to me. I agree with the previous response that he does enjoy routes more than he does easier summits. But he likes to make a summit as well - this means he may have or does choose a different route depending on weather conditoins and partners. I dont know if he keeps a journal. It would not surprise me if he did but it may not even include all the peaks he has climbed for instance. There is a lot of years to recollect and a lot of paper to be written for sure. Fred is making summits in the Sierras this last week and enjoying the scenery and climbing according to his correspondance. He has no care of the Cascades at the time of that writing.. His memory is still sharp but details like this make the conversation dull and he avoids it. Fred is more diverse than the Cascade Range and it's history of climbing. He has been busy elsewhere as anyone knows. -RB

Cool. Well some more research should be done to verify where all routes go. My guess is that it will eventually be more online controversial than it will finalize in a book. Wayne according to your rating I am sure I dont know of your route or where it goes. If we had a damn nice shot overlying with proposed routes it could be easier to identify where people climb. Prusik is way more ready than Cathedral Peak in a totaly route overlay or topo in the Beckey Book. I am sure it sees more traffic as well. In fact it is a sub alpine crag of beauty. -RB

I am guessing? VI is a typo of IV. This includes more information. It is not detailed at all but provides a base to investigate the :new routes" and where they go. My guess is that most are not independent of one another. -RB