Cpt.Caveman

The final question is what would make us experts at identifying this?

Well I don't think we know what we think I would guess if it has injury or death potential even when clipping every bolt properly then it is not a sport climb. but that is me.

Peter are you writing a climbing book terms and definitions for the Mountaineers?

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: Bronco - Thanks for the help! So do you think that any route that uses only bolts for pro is a sport climb? Hmm interesting. Goes back to Bachar Yerian question then.....

I just had to get public opinion matt

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: Well I guess not because one pitch isnt fixed. But assunming it was fixed would you say it was a sport route? What about the other bolted lines on the Upper Wall. I dunno I never did them. Too hard.

So is Swim at Index upper walls considered a sport route?

quote: Originally posted by Matt Anderson: Actually, Si and 38 have far bettter rock than the crap at index or squamish. The granite might be solid, but the only way to get any decent moves on it is to put them there. At least with 38 and Si, the trad climbing is safe because the cracks are bolted. Matt I dont know what you mean? The rock at Index is superb and holds gear. Deception Crags is a roadblast. I once saw rocks rocket out of the sky down on the area before We Did Rock. Now tell me that aint choss dude

You should check out the far side then

quote: Originally posted by Dru: Like at Vantage?? Spokane limestone?? Mt Si?? There's good rock there? Sure is They smash away the loose shit with hammers many times or even glue the stuff back together like at Deception. I hear it wears the batteries out on a drill more at deception than on granite....... [This message has been edited by Cpt.Caveman (edited 10-04-2001).]

You are correct Forrest. I don't slander in all seriousness unless someone is really asking for it. Go climb your rock for all I care. I am in my world too, flailing on 510a. It's pulling on a piece of stone but yes it seems competitive. Of course when I hear people brag to me they lead solid 5.10 then well I usually expect them to lead a climb like Zcrack or Slow Children unless they mentioned they climb in the gym or on bolted routes. [true story] K is a fictional name. I took "K" out climbing earlier this year. It was our first outing. "k" told me he leads 5.11. "K" onsighted 5.11 at the Deception Crags. Then I take "K" to Little Si and say here is a 5.10a crack go for it. "K" aided the pitch by hanging on gear and pulling on it. Personally I thought the 5.10a was 5.9.. Have you ever heard of this situation? [/true story] It definitely does not take a work of genius to rock climb by any means crack or bolted. Although the bolted climbs are usually well spaced and anchors preplaced on good rock for most climbs. While some anchors on cracks could be rps to cams behind expanding flakes..

You can have fun with all the farm animals you want. I dont think I will need to know any more info

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: Here’s another question: When does sport climbing become trad climbing? Lets start off with Bachar-Yerian. Now I am guessing that that is not a sport route. But using Cavey’s example Violent Phlegms is considered a sport route.. What’s the critical difference? Is it the distance between bolts? Is it the chance of getting hurt? Is it rap vs. on lead placement of bolts? What would be a set of distinctions I could use to differentiate the two? After I get a clear understanding of the difference my question is:Why are bolts placed on sport routes less sinful than those placed on “trad” routes? I dont know those answers. I do know that those routes I mentioned are prime examples you can wail on to test my theory. C'mon Violent Phlegms and the Pressure Chamber would be two worlds apart for me to attempt to lead. Trust me my man I just got wailed on at Index Sunday on sport routes that were stiff.

Dru, We know you have a sheep fetish. Keep it to yourself

Wow typical responses I would expect. I will admit it takes more gear = more wieght to carry when you crack climb. Also you can sew the cracks up if you are scared. I am expert at this I will admit I feel more at ease when I clip bolts. Therefore am willing to climb at a higher level when doing so unless it is runout slabs. There is a definite sense of adventure missing when I clip completely bolted routes such as Violent Phlegms at North Bend 5.10D. While on the other hand no way I would try to lead the Pressure Chamber 5.10D on Hyperspace (supposedly same difficulty ~ yeah right ) You have to do the math yourself and see where you lie. Others may disagree but inner senses will not lie I have taken beginners to Index or even North Bend... I don't see them climbing any better in any place. If you lead Jug Or Not in North Bend and think it is the same deal I invite you to try Dishonorable Discharge in Leavenworth. Same rating [This message has been edited by Cpt.Caveman (edited 10-04-2001).]

I guess it is opinion. Try going up behind a party and you might see. Although the rock on the cruxes was good I think the upper rocks were of dubious quality myself. I would do the route again. With my helmet again.

Hunting Snafflehounds is fun! I just did it the other evening. Those little buggers are quick smart and know their home terrain well. Perhaps a flamethrower would work best? Die Snafflehounds Die!

Good idea is to make sure you have your helmet on this mountain. I remember that was a key piece of equipment.

Wopper, Do you or anyone else recommend climbing Little Tahoma or Boston Peak without a helmet?

Does anyone eat the "Whole Barn" at the Reynold's in Lillooet? Yummy!

quote: Originally posted by Alex: Serpentine is a nice intro to longer Dragontail routes, but is junk above mid-height. Backbone is much nicer. The offwidth isnt *that* long, and its at the beginning of the route. 1 or 2 large (#3, #4 camalot) cams can protect it, and then it over with and you have the rest of teh day to enjoy a great route. If you are unfamiliar with Dragontail, or are a slow(er) climber, I would not do Backbone as my first route there unless you are solid in the grade with a solid partner. I was told you could bypass the OW around to the left of the ridge crest?

To the top, I did not expect anyone to show so I went over a friend's house for the night. A simple email or phone call would have done you right. Sorry but I did not know anyone was planning on coming over. Apparently some other people did too. I was gone from home by around 6:30. -Cpt

If I am convinced at least 4 people will show. I will try to meet them at marymoore park tonight.

Oh yeah I got a 3 layer north face gore tex jacket..........

Hammer, pins, bivy sack, ice screws, aluminum crampons all gone. Still got the hooks and a few cams....... Osprey has frame and is a medium. No worries Rod.