Stefan

What about this Pantheon range? Have you guys been there?

I usually post a "best of" for my year. It is not a top five though....some of you have seen it.... Here's my best of....worst of.....climbing list for 2002! Deepest Snow Conditions (tie): Barometer / Nasikelt (Snow was consistently up to the knees with snowshoes on) Scariest: Meridian Hill (I ran into a man that was angry enough to shoot me!) Longest road walk on snowshoes: Voodoo (It went on and on and on....) Wettest: Sopa (Alton and I were soaked. Definitely one of my top's for being wet) Best spring trip: Gardner/Shelokum (Conditions were excellent) Hardest trip: Gabriel (I got my ass wupped by the North Cascades) Most Confused descent: Trapper (What were we thinking?) Worst bivy: North Hozomeen (At 5000' had mosquitos, too warm, no comfortable position...) The traverse that never ended: Perdition Peak (It went on and on and on...) Best Cascade View: Dome Peak (If you haven't done, do it.) Best Trip with McKenna: Abercrombie (BIG views!) Most invigorating climb: Dufourspitze (Switzerland) (Awesome views too!) Most elevation gain in a day: Dom (Switzerland) (over 10,500 feet in a day!) Best fall trip: Concord/Lexington/NEWS (In one day!) Worst accident: Mount Temple (Thankful that I am here writing this to you today.)

I will be looking at maps. I just wanted the expert opinion from people who have been to these areas. I liked the pictures of the Tchaikazan Valley and the Niut Range. I could not find pictures for the Battle Range or Melville Group. Drew, I saw a picture that said "Bifrost Pass" area going from Geddes to Zeus. That area looks intriguing. Is access via road or helicopter to that particularly large area?

Mt Triumph. North Face Central Rib. In Winter.

It was good to see you too Pencil Pusher! To answer your question, I posted on cc.com with a laptop..... A face with a name! Dudes, the wheelchair thing is a chick magnet! [ 11-18-2002, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Stefan ]

MVS: I hope your site is updated with your pictures from Italy. You have a cool website! I would rather see more trails in the Pickets area.....but asking for more trails is like asking the Bush daughters to stop drinking alcohol.

Please help me with this dream. 1) I am trying to find a place in British Columbia. 2) I am trying to find a place where I can make a base camp for about a week. 3) A base camp situated in a valley or cirque. 4) From the base camp I would like to climb several peaks around me—each of the peaks would be one day ascents 5) A base camp that would be isolated and “not popular” 6) Base camp would be accessed by plane or helicopter. 7) Routes of peaks would be physically difficult but not technically difficult. (I am more interested in being in a great place, rather than doing great things.) 8) Climbing would be preferably be on snow. Steep snow is okay and great! 9) A place where the mosquitos are absent I do not want to move my base camp because I would be bringing in good food and cooking steaks on a hibachi. And moving good food/hibachi would be a problem because I am not interested in slogging sleds around. Does such a place exist? If so, recommendations?

Me. I am ignorant. I say tax the nation like they do in Washington State--by mostly a sales tax. Forget the income taxes. That way if you are TRUELY POOR you will never pay taxes. If you are truely poor, you would be buying food (not taxed) and staying in an apartment or some other government subsidized living. Now if you went out and bought a FIRST DOWN jacket with your homeys then you be paying taxes. The rich buy the biggest homes, and the nices cars, so in essence they would be paying a higher price. I would also have a sales tax on buying stocks, bonds....etc. In addition, this sales tax thing would eliminate probably 1/2 of the IRS becuase there would be LESS PAPERWORK!!!!! If you decide to not buy anything, then you don't pay taxes. If you don't buy, then you will be saving or investing...... Just a thought......

Although it is not high altitude, I think the traverse that Lowell Skoog does by Big Snow at the end of the Mid Fork Snoq road is pretty good. Think about it. At the end, you could come back and do spend a day at Goldmeyer Hot Springs to message all your muscles. Lowell Skoog would have a buttful of options for you! But of course, most of the options that he would give you as well as me.....would be in Washington.... [ 11-13-2002, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: Stefan ]

Watch out on the standard route on Tower if you decide to do that one (you may come down that way). It is doable without rope, but there were times when I was a little sketched becuase it was like downclimbing on class 3-4 sections with little pebbles everywhere that were like marbles on a granite floor. [ 11-13-2002, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: Stefan ]

I am a little more knowledgeable about breaks in the ankle region since the past couple of weeks. Do you know what the doctors are calling his type of break?

quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: Climbing with older folks than me has taught me that just being there is way cooler in the long run. This is something that I have picked up on too.

Wow. Quality thread. This is why I like this website. Of the stories I have heard and the pictures I have seen, I am just afraid of going to Patagonia! I can't climb over 5.9. Hell, I can't even climb right now. Hell, I can't even walk..... You know what really scares me? My wife. Oh, and my future child too.

I hope you had fun! Sounds interesting....and coming down in the dark wasn't bad?

It's a guy. It's a homosexual (There's nothing wrong with that...) becuause he is wearing a ring on his right finger. (my spray suit is on)

quote: Originally posted by DavidW: as I've mentioned before I had a rappel sling failure put me in the hospital for several months....... still i've been trying to understand what happened here...... Stefan in your opening post you stated: " I set up another rappel around a previous anchor sling at the subsidiary station." Does that mean mean that there was one more sling in the anchor photographed and that that sling is now missing? And you didnt add any slings? You merely selected the best from the group and used it? you didnt add one and tie your own knot or anything? For what its worth my accident happened in 1973..... I've been climbing ever since but still get some twinges of fear at less than optimal stations..... its manageable and will lessen with time. Best wishes for a speedy recovery however and thanks for your patience with this thread! The answer is "YES" to all your questions. I didn't trust any of the slings in that group photographed becuase of their wearing. They didn't look reliable. The sling I used was not in that group--it was away from that group of slings.

quote: Originally posted by freeclimb9: quote:Originally posted by Smoker: So what have we learned? Back up our rap anchors and Dont use your climbing rope for a hand line. Except, from the description given by the victim, he might very well have impacted on his back rather than landing on his feet. If I was using the rope as a traditional rappel, I would have fell on my back and been paralyzed, or dead. I am thankful I was using the rappel as a handline from the way I fell...... Yes, I guess I should have backed up the rappel anchor. Hindsight is always 20/20. However, it is not always feasible to back up every rappel when you are in the alpine setting. It is ideal, but not always done.....

quote: Originally posted by SEF: Stefan, I commend you for returning again to clarify. The result is a clearer, if still incomplete understanding. I fully understand that you will find revisiting the subject sensitive, but assure you that clarity, not criticism, is my goal. You have some rather daunting injuries, not all of which are physical. I hope you find some comfort that your efforts in posting here will help others. I know I will certainly think of you when I inspect my next rap anchor. Still unanswered is the question of whether the sling that failed is missing. If, as you seem to suggest, its original location was outside the frame in the posted picture, then we cannot know from that. Obviously, finding that sling would be key to determining the failure mechanism. Your description of the sling inspection that you made before the downclimb omits any mention of the knot that was used or the length of its tails, which rather stands out to me. I do know that the water knot is prone to creep, especially over repeated weight and un-weight cycles, especially in very supple tubular webbing. Once the tail enters the knot itself, the knot can suddenly fail without warning when weighted. Other rappelling accidents have resulted from such failure. I can't say that is what occured here, but it is a strong possiblity. The sling had the traditional waterknot on it from what I remember, with about 1" tails. Did I touch the waterknot to see its tightness/looseness? No. I just saw the waterknot and it appeared right to me. In my opinion, the sling broke somehow. Why didn't the people see the sling when they went back? Vegetablebelay has a good answer. The helicopter created A LOT of downdraft and there was little scree bits flying around a lot--I really mean A LOT. The helicopter came and went over the location 4 times. 1)to drop the paramedic 2)to drop the litter 3)to pick me up in the litter 4) to pick the paramedic up. Right now I am not in the frame of mind to ever rappel again.

quote: Originally posted by TimL: Unfortunately bad things happen in this sport to many good people. Sometimes we are able to figure out the cause, others the best we can do is speculate on possible scenarios of what went wrong. After speculating so much, it seems like the discussion reaches the same results as a cat chasing its own tail. I think we should be thankful that Stefan is recovering and not dead, and that he has decided to share his story in a public forum, something I would not do if it were me. Hopefully Stefan will be able to recover fully and enjoy the beauty and freedom that climbing offers all of us. Thanks Tim. Nicely said. I suck at writing good words. Right now I have casts on both legs. My right leg which took most of the fall and was operated on. I have a 1/4 inch plate by 6 inches on my tibia(is this the small bone?) on the outside with 8 screws. On the lower section of my fibia on the instep (I think the big bone) I have an angular screw (1 inch) and a pin (1 inch) with a wire attached to it for holding it in place. Due to the tightness of the cast I can feel the plate on my outside leg. My left leg has a fracture on the neck of the talis bone(sp?). No surgery required, but I will probably get a second opinion. Both casts come off in 4 weeks. Then therapy starts on the right leg for mobility. I will wait on the left leg for another 4 weeks for any therapy as the doctor strictly enforces NO WEIGHT bearing on that bone!

quote: Originally posted by SEF: I’ve been quietly following this thread, and remain disturbed. The lack of a clear explanation makes it harder to “move on.” We all want to avoid this ourselves, but what exactly is there to avoid? We seek to know what failed here so we can be more vigilant about checking for that possibility before committing to future anchors. Anchors simply do not fail and then appear just fine on inspection afterward. The picture does not show what failed. It shows several slings, with knots that appear to still be in place, but the sling actually used for the rap rope is not identified. Was it missing? Clearly something failed, yet those who inspected evidence remaining on the scene are saying nothing there appears to have failed. That contradiction remains bothersome. At this point, I do take from this the lesson that using more than one sling to anchor a rappel is prudent. Where a bunch of slings are available, I’ll use as many as possible, inspect closely, and perhaps even fortify them with a new one of my own. I add my best wishes to Stefan for a speedy and full recovery. All I know is that the one sling I used, failed. Two slings in the future every time I do a rappel? Maybe. Depends on the situation and how many slings I have left in my arsenal. I have used one sling around bomber trees to rap off of and I would probably continue with that practice if I decide to do any more rappeling again. I believe many of you out there will too. But just to say you will ALWAYS use at least two slings is ridiculous. At least 2 slings at every rappel would be ideal--sometimes idealism runs into reality when you are out there. What about that time when you have to leave a piece of pro behind? Will you leave two pieces of pro behind to back up your anchor? Some will. Some won't. Everyone makes their own decisions when the time comes. Nobody wants to die or get hurt. Why didn't I bother to back up my sling with those that show up in the picture? I chose not to use those slings because they were tattered and worn. My sling was near but not in that bunch of slings. I believed those slings shown were unsafe when I was there. I chose the sling I used becuase of its relative newness, the way it was rapped around a rock, no sign of wearing, and was bomber when I pulled on it before my partner went down first. I decided to not back it up with the worn slings becuase the angle with the sling I was using was not conducive to the angle of the rappel--it meant the angle of the rope would be somewhat "triangular" and if the worn slings broke, then I could forsee an angular fall.

quote: Originally posted by leejams: Just another thought, perhaps it wasn't the anchor at all. If he was downclimbing and just using the rope as balance and somehow grabbed only one rope instead of both he could have lost his balance and slipped off? Hope you have a speedy recovery stefan. Good question. But, sorry, nope. My partner would have to pull the rope down as it was only about 30 feet in length to the sling from the bottom. My partner did not have to pull the rope down.

quote: Originally posted by Bug: Stefan. You said it was a fluke. I respectfully disagree. You made a mistake my friend. Don't do it the same way ever again. I have done the same. I continue to climb with that knowledge burning into the back of my head. I never take anything for granted. No found sling is safe without a thorough inspection. No found achor, etc... You and I were lucky and survived. I am sorry you have such a bad injury. Not all my friends have survived this sport. I hope your injuries heal quickly and your pride can handle the truth. You have to change something. Interesting. I remember a report of a woman who died on a sport climb. She was climbing on a rope that had been toproped. She took a leader fall and fell to her death. The reason was the rope had a defect. Manufacturer problem I believe--something about where two ropes were joined. No climber could have found that problem. A good man died recently at the coulee. I haven't followed the thread exactly, but as I recall it may be a biner failure. (Please correct me if I am wrong.) Second man goes down on a sling and for some reason the sling disengages on the second man. I didn't just rap on any sling. Yes, I did inspect the sling (that's an obvious thing everyone should do). Yes I even pulled on the rope (twice) before my partner went down first to make sure the sling could hold. I will continue with the same practice. Someday a harness will break.....what then? someday a rappel ring will break....what then? someday a rappel device will break...what then? Not every piece of equipment is reliable 100% all the time even though you have to put all your trust in it. If I climb Liberty Bell again, I will rap off those anchors that are set up--and yes I will inspect them before I use them....but if they fail....I guess that would be my fault....

Like I said before in my original email, the sling will remain a mystery. Something happened, and I don't know what, not even the people who went back could figure it out. That's life. That's how it's going to be. Just be safe out there and remember that nothing is full proof 100%.

quote: Originally posted by Dru: Did you step down suddenly or make any other 'bouncy' type movement just before you fell? Also, when you say you were handlining down, was the rope through a rap device, or not? Hand line to me sounds like the rope wasnt through your rap device, more like you were just holding it in both hands for balance. I just downclimbed and did not make any bouncy movements, nor did I step down suddenly. I was handlining down and not using a rap device. Before my partner went down on the rap sling I have two hard pulls in the direction of the rappel to make sure the rope was secure. The sling was around a very large rock that was acting like a chockstone.

My partner went down first and I watched the rappel anchor--it never moved. Since I saw that the rappel anchor never moved, I was confident nothing would happen. I did not have full body weight on the rappel anchor when I was going down becuase I was using it as a handline like my partner, but I was still using a significant amount of weight on the rope. I understand what everybody says about backing up the rappel anchor and sending the heavier person down first. However, this was just a fluke thing that happened, and I don't think that would have worked in this instance.