Lambone

Matt, It sounds like you want something brighter than the LED lamp such as the Moonlight or Tikka (about the same in my opinion). If so I'd go with the new BD Gemeni for the price. The LED bulb saves your batteries, and the Halogen Bulb kicks out the ultra beam when you need it. A bit heavier...but well still better than any Petzl with a halogen bulb.

quote: Originally posted by erden: Well, this arm wrap belay is a new thing we teach at the Mountaineers, NOT! I know none of this is one bit funny, but you got a laugh out of me there Cheers

quote: Originally posted by Mr. Chips: i think anyone can get the mental picture of what happened, why dwell on the matter. ya, perhaps to get some information about slipshod equipment or something, let it go, a person died and you are blindly pointing fingers and undoubtedly making some people upset or anxious, and hey australopithocus, what is to speculate about the outcome?! (shrug...) Just participating in the discussion with everyone else fella. It seems to me like Erden has chosen to talk about this with us, why should important details such as the belay be ignored? I'm not pointing fingers, just wondering what "I did throw my left arm into the lead line to press it closer to the ground as I did crouch." meens, and why someone would choose to do it? Doesn't it seem weird to you that a fall that generated enough force to break a carabiner and pull three big cams, only gave Erden a minor robe burn on his arm? He says that he didn't even feel it pull on his belay device... I don't know, call me whatever, I am just one to look at it from all angles. If the questions I am asking are upseting people, well...sorry. I guess I'll just shut up then.

Erden, I have another question. Please don't think I am casting blame, doubting your skils (which I do not know), or acusing you of anything. It seems you did everything you could have possibly done as a climbing partner. However, I am confused about this statement- "I was belaying with a Petzl Reverso. The belay action was delivered by the one loop around my arm, and I did not feel much pull on my belay device." What's up with the arm wrap? Was it just some sort of strange natural reflex inorder to take in slack, or something else? This reminds me of an experience I had back in '93 or so when I was new to climbing. I was belaying a friend on a sport route, he went way left off route, skipped a bolt and ended up in a bad place with a long runout. He fell. My gut reaction was to yard in slack and jump back, 'cause I thought he might deck out. Pulling in the rope perhaps sped up the pendulum action of he fall and he smacked pretty hard against the rock, but didn't deck. He hurt his hip, and yelled at me for it. What I did was just instinct, it happened in a split second, but to this day I am not sure if I kept him off the ground, or made his fall worse. Anyway, I guess what I am asking is what went through your mind during the fall, and if you intentionaly wrapped the rope around your arm? Or did it just happen before you knew what was happening? I understand this is a tough question to answer in the face of a great tragedy, and if you do not wish to reply, no worries. I guess I, as I'm sure others as well, have just been drawn into trying to form a mental picture of what happened out there. I'm not sure why, but I am compeled to ask, and try to learn from this terrible event. Thanks.

That big snowfall must have been in the second week of september. The only place where we could see the new snow was on the glaciers though, it was totaly dry everywhere else. what a freakin drive, the prkwy blew my mind!

The rope is just as much related to the accident as anything else in the belay chain. Nevertheless, static ropes are not easy to mistake for dynamic, and I doubt thats what happened.

oh, hehe...I knew that! it was my first time to the range. um, well we returned on the 23rd, so I'm not sure what it has done since then. But here is what we saw. The weather was great for the first two days we were there while we were figureing out what we were going to do. Then as soon as we started climbing it be came unsettled. Rain showers below 8,000ft, and snow flurries above. Plus it was really windy up above tree line, on exposed ridges and stuff. Nasty enough that we decided that the summit wasn't worth the suffering. It was nice down on the glaciers though. Two weeks before we arived a big system moved in and put down up to 5ft of snow in some high places like Abbots pass hut. Then it was sunny and warm for a week, things settled out and melted quite a bit. The glaciers were mostly dry with some windblown pockets of snow. They were either blue ice, or firm snow crust. We didn't feel that it was nessecary to have avy gear as we didn't see any sign of recent slides. The trees were turning color, the huts were empty...and it was really nice, just a bit cold. I'd head back again in mid-september. The rock routes loked steller...next time.

yeah, didn't think it would be static, I was more interested in the diameter and perhaps the brand. I have been experimenting with different size (mm) ropes in the last few years. And the type involved tin this accident seems relavent considering that the rope is such an integral part of the whole system, perhaps the # 1 factor regarding the impact force put on the protection, a long with the belay technique... Let us know if you find out, it would be appreciated, thanks. [ 10-02-2002, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: Lambone ]

huh? you been to Stuart before...whatcha talkin about willis? I'ts probly pretty chilly and on the verge of raining, or snowing. The ice cliff glacier was rumbling all day two weeks ago. If you're serious then please be more specific...otherwise buger off mate.

Good choices, fill out your set of Rocks, they are sweet.

I am also curious about the rope and belay device used Erden...just for curiosities sake...

quote: Originally posted by Pencil Pusher: Hey Lambone, is a cell phone included in the ten essentials? only when my wife is along. it wasn't included on this last adventure. you got a problem with that?

yeah, my bag doesnt have any flint or steel wool... on one trip up there we left the first aid kit behind, just bringing an ace bandag and some tape. Of course, since we did that, C slipped on some talus and cut her hand up real bad...we had nothing to clean it out or patch it up with...damned if you do, damned if you don't

werd

quote: Originally posted by chucK: Right you are Captain!!!! and ALWAYS bring... a compass flashlight/headlamp, extra food, extra clothes, sunglasses, first-aid kit, pocket knife, waterproof matches, and firestarter. You know, for years I have carried this little black bag with the 10 essntials around on just about every climb (other than cragging) i have done. I think it comes from boy scout training..."Be prepared" and all that...It allways seems like a good idea to bring it, just in case, yet over the years I have hardly ever usd any of it. Lately I've been considering that it's just dead weight... Then the unthinkable happened, Chrysten and I head up to the Canadian Rockies, and somewhere up on the Trans-Canada highway I realized that I forgot my precious little bag of "essentials" on the floor. Oh shit! What could I do? How could I climb a peak without it...? Well, we bought a BD Ion lamp so we wouldn't have to fight over who gets to use the light, and I never even thought about all the rest of the "junk." Now I am caught in a deliema, is that stuff really essential, or is it just a false sequrity blanket that helps slow you down and make your shoulders sore???? What do yall think. [ 10-02-2002, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: Lambone ]

Yes chuck, there is. It is after the no fires/horses sign. I specifically remember seeing it two weeks ago. I took note of it because I didn't remember it from last time. It's right at the fork in the trail.

quote: Originally posted by Retrosaurus: quote:Originally posted by Tyrone Shoes: I'm from Italy, and the people appretiate when a citizen puts the time and money into the local mountains... You already wasted your money on a plane ticket. Don't waste it on bolts on alpine granite (on this continent). You need another plane ticket. The sooner the better. Take The Bone with you. Seems like maybe you should go with him, considering that you were hooked by his troll. I call BS on this Tyrone fella

I would guess that the biner had broken somewhere along the aluminum stem or near the nose. Typicaly the wires are made of steel and are the strongest part of the biner. I may be wrong...erden? [ 10-11-2002, 01:05 AM: Message edited by: Lambone ]

No worries alien...we ended up in the wrong "cascadian couloir" on our first time. 'twas a long wet rainy night, and got really interesting when we had to self arrest on the steep pine needles while trying to avoid the dark ominoius death cliffs bellow. Ended up sleeping under a log in my pack that night. No fun. At least we didn't have to "ford" any talus!

quote: Originally posted by snoboy: quote:Originally posted by Dru: Then the Mog ran out of gas near Squamish and it was discovered the tire was flat too. Probably from sharp things in the alder thicket and wailing over the bumps. Anyways we had to walk back to his house and get my Ru and a gas can and go get the Mog so he could drive it home. So what yer saying is that you needed a Ru to rescue a Mog? I'd always heard they were good cars. And how do some pricker bushes pop those tires?

quote: Originally posted by ILuvAliens: Longs pass trail(primitive) leaves the trail farther west towards Ingalls Lake(no more than a mile from cascadian conjunction) You stay left, cross an obvious log bridge over Ingalls Creek. There are no Signs. First time on Stuart, we hiked in at night. We didn't see the trail so we had to ford the talus slopes. Looking back we couldn't have been more then 30 ft from the trail. On the way out we were sucked into the beverly creek trail thinking it was our quickest/easiest way out(thinking there was no real trail to longs pass). Sadly mistaken. Longs pass is an OBVIOUS trail that zigzags down from just west of the pass. Just because I can't stand bad beta: First, how can the trail be primitive and obvoius? There are signs at either end of the Longs Pass trail. One at the fork on the Teanaway side, and one at the fork at the ingalls creek side. The fork in the ingalls creek trail, where there is a big sign nailed to a tree that says "Longs Pass -->," is barley a 1/4 of a mile upstream from the exit trail out of the Cascadian Couloiur. Take a left and walk through the campsite area, go over the big tree, walk thirty feet back down stream through another poorley placed campsite, and take a right on the path that is a bit better than a climbers trail. Follow it up. Don't be missled by sucker trails up in the flats below the pass. It's not that difficult folks. Brains must be fried after the routefinding on the west ridge... [ 10-02-2002, 12:59 AM: Message edited by: Lambone ]

quote: Originally posted by dbconlin: Does anyone have firsthand experience with the BD lamp that has a LED bulb and a halogen. I think it won the Backpacker magazine editors choice award. My friend owns it and hates it. Any opinions? I also lost my Tika, kind of a funny thing...it droped down into a deep crack in a boulder while I was pulling out a cliff bar. Anyway, I got one of the new BD ones(gemini). I forget the name, but it is the cheaper one with two bulbs. So far I like it. It's just a bit smaller and lighter than a Zoom, but way lighter than the Petzl Duo. We also got one of those tiny BD two led bulb deals (Ion) up in Canada. Works good for on the trail, just as good as a Tikka and about half the weight and size. The only thing I don't like about my BD Gemeni lamp is that you have to push the button twice to get to the halogen bulb. No big deal really... [ 10-01-2002, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: Lambone ]

I'd havta disagree with Mr. Rogers, tcu's suck...the new BD small cams rule, but aliens are better. I like the big metolious because they are way lighter to carry to anything but a roadside crag. Pick em up together and you'll see. In the end any cam is a good one when your gripped!

wow...I'm sorry erden. just horrible, every climbers nightmare. i offer my sincere condolences to all. I meen no disrespect, and I do not doubt or question the accuracy of any of the information you have graciously offered here. But I ask myself, how does one zipper those peices you have mentioned? I guess it doesn't matter much, I am just stuned in disbelief. Take care brother.

bolt the hell out of it dude...