Lambone

Lets all jump on the Kill Erik bandwagon! You first Kruger.

I have decided not to participate in your stupid childish behavior.

Come into the Ice Conditions forum punk, then well see who's moderating who... I think you are abusing your authority again little lady, not getting enough attention at home????

my name is bone... i am weak my ballz are owned by someone else pleez help!! [ 05-15-2002, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: erik ]

RURP, you're a prick. I gave beta that you can find by looking at the guide book. Yes it goes clean, at C2, bring your standard clean aid gear, is pretty common knowledge, and all stated in Darryl's book. Not to mention that I have heard so much about that route from friends that I could tell you what pieces to bring for each cruxy move. As far as speculation about fixed gear, I was just offering my opinion of fixed gear in general. Sometimes its nice and convienint, lots of times it just gets in the way. Thanks will, I owe you a beer, you allways got my back! See ya in June! [ 05-15-2002, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: Lambone ]

quote: Originally posted by salbrecher: Anybody have any comments on the wild country forged friends? Really cheap, and lightweight. Ridged is a drawback, but can be delt with. they have worked well since way back when!

sweet, nice job!

Whatever, I'm not bitching about anything. Maybe you only skimmed over what we've been talking about, but Town Crier was merely one example of a common issue in the evolution of popular aid climbs. I have no real personal attachment to Town Crier in particular, I've been speaking about aid climbs in general, using Town Crier as an example with the information that many others have given me. I didn't say the fixed pins shouldn't be there, I said the SLINGS shouldn't be there. Let me repeat myself once more, and see if you can catch it this time: Slings on fixed pins on roofs make the climbing easier, and less fun in my opinion. thats all I'm saying. Who cares if I haven't done the route, you can see them from the ground, and several of my buddies have told me its a boring clip up. Needless to say, I hope to go do it this weekend

Can anyone else claim to be guilty of clipping that historical time peice on Rogers Corner? I love that one.

All I'm sayin is that lots of times fixed junk just clutters a route. It does'nt need to be there, but most people just leave it. The West Face of the Leaning Tower is a prime example. The big roof up there takes bomber clean gear all the way through, but the entire thing is fixed, so you can do it about ten minutes. Same with the Sheild roof. I agree that some fixed gear is good, like pendis and lower-outs etc. But does every piece need to be laced up with multiple strands of crappy webbing. Not usualy. Take this for example, I've come up to many belays in yosemity that have a ten - 15 foot random chord hanging from a bolt. Why? So you can skip the last three moves. Why would someone just leave that there for the next climber to deal with. I haven't done Town Crier, only seen it from below. I saw lots of long runners hanging off the the pins under the roof. Why are they there? Those move don't look that spaced out...Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. I'm no expert aid climber, mearly mediocer, but if the pins are fixed, why not have to get up high to reach them, it's part of the fun. My point is that if everyone leaves something fixed on a route, we won't have to carry any gear in 10 years.

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: Lamb – As far as fixed gear: what if removing all the fixed gear made the route impossible to climb clean. What if it changed the rating to C5? Does the original rating of the route have any implication on the nature of the fixed gear that is acceptable? PP PP, Cool, no worries. That is a tough question. here is what I usualy do regarding fixed gear, or at least what i've done on the few trade routes I've done. If it can come out without damaging the rock, then it should. If it's obvious that nothing else but that pin will work, I leave it. But tattered fixed sling, especialy on roofs, has got to go. It allows the gumby to stay low and comfy in the aiders. You might as well have a cheater stick. I didn't know all the history behind Town Crier's bolts, so I was never trying to make acusations towards anyone. I was just speeking of aid routes in general, and I'm more concerned with the walls down in the valley. You guys hear about Alex Lowe's 60m bat hook ladder up on Teh Great Trango! Wow! Talk about initail character of the route. I'd be pissed if someone went up and added rivets to those holes. Escpecially if I had some desire to follow in Alex's footsteps (which I dont).

Topos are cool. I like maps...they help you get from point a to point b with minimal screwing around, and less gear. [ 05-14-2002, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: Lambone ]

PP, I just mentioned 3/8" because that is the standard the ASCA is using down in Yosemite. Probably because they are hand drilling so many. Trust me, I complain about fixed gear also. unless it will damage the rock to remove it. I think the tripple roof pitch is a joke, and am considering cleaning it, at least all the tat cheater sling. If you read my post more closely, you will see that I am not suggesting either way is right, I'm asking for the opinion of others. No, I dont think defective bols should be replaced with defective bolts...what kind of question is that anyway??? I think the first assencionist should be considered when rebolting a route. Out of respect if nothing else. If they are dead...oh well, see 'em in hell. As far as the original character of the route... case in point: Pitch 5 of Zodiac A new bolt ladder has been place straight up the wall, where Charlies old bolt ladder takes the dunken sailor route to the left then way back right. I'm not saying its right or wrong, but when I was up there it definately left a bad taste in my mouth.

OK, here is my rant, to add to the list of rants above... I think Scott does have a valid argument, although his logic seems a little off to me. Why isn't climbing a manky bolt ladder also a vertical hike? What's the difference? Does a old bolt ladder really take more skill to climb than a new one...come on now, get real. I do agree that the character of the route should be somewhat preserved. What do you guys think? If 1/4 inch button heads were placed on the fa, shouldn't they be replaced with the same thing? Or should we just sink a new 3/8 inch bolt with a stainless hanger on it? I'm not sure...points could be argued both ways. After all, a 3/8" would be much more permenant. BTW Scott, your post wouldn't be such a waste of bandwidth if you hadn't used it to "snipe" me. I'll make up my mind when I'm goddamn god and ready, "Mr. I've got it all figured out...." [ 05-14-2002, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Lambone ]

Manky rotten bolt ladders are stupid. It's not like they take any extra skill to climb, just the balls to run the gauntlet. It's unrealistic to pretend that we can use ancient bolt ladders on trade routes forever. Then again, I think they do have a bit of astheic, historical value.

yeah, all fixed eh...bummer. Maybe we'll do Green Drag-on instead. Or both. We'll be up there sat and sun, we should all hook up and throw back some beers.

pinggg oooooohhhhhhhhh ssssshhhhhhhhiiitttt...

Just wanted to know which day not to be there... Just kiddin' sorry, but my buddy Sean and I are heading up there this weekend as well. Good luck finding someone, if not, just solo! Try iceguy, he's been looking for a partner for it as well. See ya.

BD SpecialsYup, sweet deal. Folks have been tryin to get a hold of these for a while now. I bet they will sell quickly. The ropes are a good price as well, if your looking for a good pair of ice chords.

I also had the chance to use the same two Splitter Cams, only down in Yosemite. Although I value Erik’s opinion on cams, I thought a more detailed review was in order. At first my impression was similar to Erik’s, but I thought I’d give them a chance. My partner and I took a Two Cam and Four Cam up on the Leaning Tower; I only used them on aid moves, and didn’t get a chance to fall on them. I want to give the Splitter’s a fair review, so here are some of their benefits and drawbacks that I found. I won’t bore you with specks and numbers, if you want those go to their web site ( Splitter Gear web page ), these are the simple design features that I thought were important: Benefits of both styles – 1. They are narrower than any other cams out there. 2. They are lightweight. 3. Can all be placed passively, no need for cam stops. 4. Thin flexible wires, protected with a plastic sheath. 5. Trigger is flexible and won’t “lever” out the cam. 6. They are relatively cheap. A few bucks less than most others. Drawbacks of both – 1. Range isn’t great. 2. Triggers are a bit flimsy and awkward. Two Cam – This cam works great in shallow placements. The whole thing will fit where you may only get two Alien lobes in. It uses a narrow gauge cable that is pretty flexible, and shouldn’t lever a cam out of a pin scar when weighted. The lobes act as their own cam stops, so it could never become inverted, or over-camed. Also, the trigger wires are not made out of braided wire, so they wont ever frey or break. I thought the Two Cam works best in shallow cracks, and pods. It fits nicely in finger cracks/pockets and tapered nut placements, but doesn’t work well in flaring grooves. Since the cam lobes are not independent, they can’t modulate to “fill out” a flaring placement. The trigger wires are malleable and become bent easily, they are a pain to straighten. Also, the trigger seemed a bit flimsy and awkward, I’d be worried about the durability over time. Four Cam – I thought this cam was cool because unlike most conventional 4 cams, it doesn’t have a pivot point that the cam will walk on. For instance, my other 4 cams tend to pivot on the two middle cam lobes and spin upside down; you’ve all seen this. Also it’s narrow, you get the same width as a TCU, but with 4 Cam lobes. This unit has a standard wire trigger, which unlike the Two Cam, doesn’t get all bent out of shape. Again, there is no need for cam stops. This one also works better in flares than the Two Cam, because each lobe acts independently. The main cable gauge is thicker, and specks show these have more holding power than the Two Cam. The only thing I didn’t like about the 4 Cam was the range, I just couldn’t seem to get it to fit. I’m sure this is just a matter of getting used to the sizes. Overall I liked the cams, but I was reluctant to use them. Mostly because I like the gear I’m used to and am resistant to change. Also be cause I couldn’t seem to get the sizes figured out. (side note: why doesn’t someone set a standard on cam colors!) If some one asked me if they should by them for a Yosemite trip, I’d have to say, “Get a set of Offset Aliens first, then think about the Splitter’s.” Yet I think that both of these Splitter Gear Cams have distinct advantages over standard camming units. I’m sure they will gain popularity and acceptance with time. Now if only they could come up with a Two Cam for flaring pin scars, I’d be sold. [ 05-13-2002, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: Lambone ]

Dude, the syncronization on those "smileies" is awsome...way to go! You must be training

What day?

Two UW students hard at work....

I agree with Alex. It's way better to have your feet level with each other when standing up high in aiders. Try top-steping with two aiders that are not clipped to the same biner, it sucks. Two aiders is not any faster, just lighter if your doing a short section of aid in the alpine zone or something.

Dan, You can't make reservations at Camp 4, it's first come first serve. I like camping there cause you can meet lots of great climbers from all over the world, but don't count on it being quiet. It's 5 bucks a night per person. check out this page for all the information you'd everwant to know about Yosemite climbing, or the Park.