mattp

I have heard of such a law, and one could probably look it up and find it if it exists (though I must say, sometimes I can't find a law when I need it!). But there would be no absolute protection for a landowner even if the law says "no recrational user can sue a landowner in connection with a hazard on that person's land, period" because there are lawyers and judges and juries who ignore the law every day. Lawyers ignore laws because it is pretty much their job to win their case, and judges and juries are more likely to ignore the law because they believe the law as written isn't "just" in the particular situation at hand. But it would be nice reassurance if there were such a statute.

That ain't no sausage -- that's a dog.

quote: Originally posted by thelawgoddess: great cheese, superb wine, and more places to ski and climb. But we sure need those. In a baaad way.

quote: Originally posted by Uncle Tricky: The good news is that localism in climbing is still mostly of the positive kind. Let’s keep it that way. Well said, and said with style -- as always.

Cavey - That Haireball guy knows. But you are right: on a glacier there is little place to anchor a tarp. I primarily use the tarp when I am undertaking a trip that will involve camping in the trees--which is most of the time I go anywhere in Washington (though maybe not on a volcano or on those occasions when I deliberately seek a high camp with a view).

Don't fall for it. It rains up there 366 days a year and the "slabs" are nothing but choss. The climbing is much better at exit 38.

That sounds like a pretty good trip. The climb up the pinnacle on the summit of N. Sister was recently described on this board as rather scary (it is steep and rotten) but it is not too bad and quite short. I believe your proposed descent of the Prouty would require crossing a rather large 'schrund so if you don't want to do something technical there you might want to consider descending a steep scree slope from the southeast shoulder of the mountain (Hodge Crest) to the Lewis Glacier and then heading back around toward Broken Top. [ 09-07-2002, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: mattp ]

Garvin - I haven't done the Price, but I have climbed Nooksak Tower from the Price Glacier. The Price will be a challenging climb in October as it is quite broken up even early in the year, and you will be there at the time of maximum ice and crevasses. You should expect to have to climb in and out of slots and you'll find not only steep ice but you'll probably have to climb some rock with your crampons on. Falling rock and ice are significant hazards on the route at any time of the year, but they should be at a minimun if you are so lucky as to have a cold weather period. The approach is not hard to find. You will have to cross a creek at the trailhead (an easy wade or you may find logs that will allow you to keep your feet dry) and then hike about two or three miles of overgrown logging road until you enter the big timber. I recall that it was maybe a couple hundred yards after entering the old growth that you will want to drop down and cross the Nooksak (as of a couple years ago there was a "wilderness boundary" sign nearby). It is a big creek and the old log is gone but I think an alternate log crossing has been described on this board -- maybe in connection with a trip report of a climb on Nooksack Tower in 2001. The climber's trail to Price Lake starts up the hill no more than a couple hundred yards left of the outlet stream from Price Lake. It is overgrown at first and there is some climbing over logs, but it should be easily indentifiable and it is not a bad trail by Cascade approach standards. From the Lake, follow the moraine on the left until you can climb up onto the ridgeline up and left (the divide between the Price Glacier cirque and the Nooksack valley), and follow that until you reach a rocky step in that ridge. This spot, maybe 6-8 hours from the car, would be your last opportunity to camp in the trees and there should be water available in a gully just a few hundred feet down. From here, you will probably want to drop a few hundred feet and traverse beneath a rock face before climbing back up and right onto the east lobe of the Price Glacier. This lobe of the glacier is relatively gentle and not as threatened by rock and icefall as is the main lobe where the route travels beneath seracs and crumbly rock walls, so this also makes a good place to camp. Then, as you head over to cross beneath Nooksack Tower to reach the main lobe, there is a rock knob that may be slightly out of your way but would offer a spectacular bivvy spot on rock instead of snow. Because of the complexity and danger of the route, most parties carry over and descend via Fischer Chimneys. Run an internet search and you may find a trip report with a current description because it is in 50 Crowded Climbs and therefore draws a lot of attention. [ 09-07-2002, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: mattp ]

I'm all for respecting the wishes of the locals - to an extent. If somebody shows me their "secret" crag, I'm not going to bite the hand that feeds me by publishing a topo on the internet and, if there is a group of climbers that expresses concern about outsiders, I'm not going to promote their area. That said, however, I believe it would be rather selfish and perhaps a tad bit unrealistic if someone were to develop something as inherantly crowd-drawing as a sport-crag and then actively try to keep anyone but their personal friends from climbing there. I have no idea if anybody has done that in the Okanagon Valley, but they would have to share some responsibility if they did do that and then word got out and the landowner got mad. My take? If you go over there looking for crags or boulders, exercise the same kind of common courtesy that you should show anywhere -- park your car out of the way, ask permission before trespassing, don't disturb farm animals, pick up your trash .... And if you read on this bulletin board or anywhere else that there is expressed concern about outsiders screwing it up, seek contact with a local climber who can fill you in on the issues and respond accordingly. It is certainly true that somebody who goes over there looking for fun while on vacation does not have the same vested interest in it that a local would.

I think some people are more susceptible to intestinal problems than others. I pretty much drink from just about any stream I encounter in the mountains, unless it is from an obviously contaminated source such as immediately downstream from a crowded camping area or something. Doing this, I've never gotten sick from drinking from streams in the U.S. and Canada (I have gotten sick in Asia). However, I've had friends who are much more careful about what they drink and who have gotten very sick.

quote: Originally posted by Matt: Shin Ramyun is the tastiest ramen on the market if you're into spicy food. Add and egg and it's even better! Listen to the man. He knows. That stuff brought us back from a hypothermic stupor in about five minutes!

Spud - In my view, you can climb the South Spur just as easily in one day or two. The reason I say this is that it is not an unreasonable day-trip as has been pointed out by several of the posts above. Although some have indicated that it is a "major" day trip, I am not sure what they are comparing it to -- it is certainly more than a casual hike and it involves something like 7,000 feet of altitude gain, but it is all very straight-forward and I have seen old guys and teenagers and everybody in-between do it as a day-trip and it is really not all that bad. The one-day itinerary will allow you to carry a much smaller pack and it will also simplify the trip in that you will not be taking your chances with so much time above timberline where the mountain weather and winds can make life very uncomfortable. And I agree that the lunch counter is a mess because so many people camp (crapping and dumping their garbage) there – I think the rangers actually try to discourage camping there because of this situation. Personally, I'd make it a day trip - but you might enjoy a sunset if you camped at the lunch counter and the weather was clear and calm that night. Alternatively, a camp down near timberline could be a good compromise and it would be more comfortable should the weather crap out.

I arrived about quarter of 8 and there were about ten at the table. Before the end of the evening I'd say the turnout was closer to 20 but I didn't keep track. Sorry I didn't see you or I would have introduced you.

I believe that would be called Assault.

Mitch: Have you actually heard of any "issue" following from climbers tresspassing or otherwise annoying landowners around Omak? I've climbed on some granite over there that was pretty damn nice but it is a long way from anywhere and I have a hard time imagining it becoming anything like crowded. I understand why climbers over there might fear any kind of promotion (some Okanagon residents have been worrying about this for over twenty years and i believe they have even contacted guidebook authors to request that they omit any reference) but even at Banks Lake, where there has been a magazine article and some mention in guidebooks, in addition to being featured in Jim Nelson's "select climbs" for its ice climbs, has never become busy and there have been no resultant access issues as far as I know. [ 09-03-2002, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: mattp ]

quote: Originally posted by David Parker: We paddled in my double kayak from La Push. When the seas are calm, that is definitely the way to go. But if the wind comes up, you better be ready to leave your kayak on the beach, walk home, and come back for it next week (or, at this time of year, next Spring).

I'm not sure about the double-post idea. The counter suggests that multiple posts in the same thread may not be counted. Perhaps you have participated in 6,000 threads?

Cavey - Here you announced that you would condescend to attend a beer night with these worthless saps you have been so down on lately (pubclub), as long as they'd give you a ride. So then, when they come through for you, you change your mind??? Are we really all that lame?

It isn't a climbing destination, but the wilderness beach north and south of LaPush is one of the most beautiful places you could ever go for an overnight hike. For the north strip, you can stay at a campground (Mora) right near the start of the hike, and you are on the beach as soon as you leave your car. Hike as far as you want, and then camp (pay attention to tides and the warnings that some headlands may not be passable at certain tide levels). Toleak Point, south of LaPush, is one of the most beautiful places around. But it requires a full half-day of hiking and some wading. If you head for the west side of the Penninsula, be sure to stop in at one of the rain forests to bond with some big trees - The N. Fork Quinnault would be a good choice because it is less popular than the Hoh and does not have the river ford of the Queets. For an easy mountain climb, Mount Washington is hard to beat. The logging road where you start is pretty high, and the E. Face is not quite the easiest route but it is more exciting than the "standard route" and easy enough that I have taken total beginners up it with good results but they gotta be able to handle scree and exposure. Here's a description: http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000013 And there are some top-rope cliffs along the lake down below. Here's some info: http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000010 Run a search on this board and you may find something about sport climbing area in the Elwah River valley and somewhere near Quilicene. [ 09-03-2002, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: mattp ]

I have one too. I agree these are good trucks, but I am tired of the rough ride and the poor turning radius and I am thinking to get some kind of car instead. Most of the trailheads I go to are accessible in a car, and so many of my friends have trucks that I will nearly always be able to ride with them when going somewhere on a bad road. Yes, they are great trucks but 350 days a year, I would prefer a safer, more fuel efficient, and more comfortable vehical. [ 09-03-2002, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: mattp ]

Walk over the Joffre-Matier col and down the Anniversary Glacier.

quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: I dont think so. I think you are armchairing what I have experienced actually You would be correct about that - I'm sitting in a chair with arms on it at this very moment.

quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: spent countless nights in shitstorms of snow, rain wind and running water on my sleeping bag due to no floor I think that is called operator error.

When camped below timberline, I'd much rather hang out under a tarp than in a tent. As Haireball noted, you can set them high or low, depending on wind and rain, but the thing I like about tarp camping is that you can cook breakfast in bed, while enjoying the scenery. When snow camping on ski trips, everybody always looks at me suspiciously when I suggest bringing a tarp and they bring their tent anyway -- "just in case." Then they usually spend the entire trip hanging under my tarp because it is so much more comforbable.

Is Sean buying the beer and David Parker giving boat rides? Sign me up.