mattp

Who is doing the planning for this thing? Will there be Nick Space impersonators? How about strong-arm mud wrestling? Insult response preparedness and sensitivity training? A smiley-faced hug festival? Cheastbeating contest? Snafflehound racing? How about a rope-up cam, for those who can't make it?

True enough, ChucK, most of the routes in Darrington are relatively well-protected and bolts are prevelant. But the climbs are unlike sport climbs in that (1) you can't comfortably walk to any Darrington climb with Teva's on your feet, (2) nearly every route has at least some place on it where you might get hurt if you fell, (3) gear placement skills are required and (4) two ropes are required to descend. I say this not to start an argument, but I've seen competent sport climbers who quickly found theirselves over their head in Darrington and I'd hate for somebody to get the wrong idea from your post. It is not like Exit 38.

quote: Originally posted by MountainMan: Also, Wind River Range in Wyoming .. great place to climb. In November? This would be the "off" season for the Winds, wouldn't it?

What Erik said. Also, I can think of no climbs under 5.9 in Washington that require one to hang off one hand while they place pro except sport climbs where you are clipping bolts. Yes, I'm sure they exist, but in any event they would be rare. You gotta spend time above your own hand-placed pro to get used to being above your own hand-placed pro. There is no other way.

There may be other issues. I couldn't get it to go, though I have DSL.

GregW I believe Washington Basic Health has some kind of waiting list or something and there are varioius restrictions. I had a client who was terminated from the program because of a paperwork problem and they would not reinstate him. They made him go through the normal application process and I believe he had to wait over a year.

Figger Eight and Jay: I said this in the Kropp thread so forgive me for repeating myself: you may argue that climbing is not as dangerous as it is made out to be, but I do not think the danger of climbing should be dismissed. My brother died in a car accident, and my mother died of cancer, but I've known more people who died climbing than who have died by car accidents and cancer combined. And I have two friends who took leader falls and hit their head, resulting in permanent brain injury. So far, I have never been involved in an accident leading to anything worse than a sprained ankle, but I believe that I would be unrealistic not to acknowledge that the sport is dangerous. I'd like to know how GregW's discussion with the life insurer goes (there was a thread on this topic a year ago). Also, a friend recently pointed out to me that even more important than life insurance, perhaps, is disability insurance. If we are killed, we will not cause an ongoing financial drain on our families (only a loss of income). If we are disabled, we may be unable to generate any income but the cost of providing for us may be tremendous. [ 10-10-2002, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: mattp ]

quote: Originally posted by erik: toast i will teach you for beer!!!! Yeah. Show up at Rope up, and there will be plenty of climbers willing to show you something about it. And if you're new to multipitch climbs, it'd be a good opportunity to get on one of those as well (last year we had some fun with mass ascents in the canyon and on Castle Rock).

Oh yes. And I'm with Erik: Just do it. Learn the craft of gear placements by any method (standing on the ground is probably easier than messing with a "pretend" lead, but the latter would be fine as well). And then go out and lead as many climbs as you can (you may want to start with climbs that are so easy you will have not a thought of falling off but once you have even a fundamentally working knowledge of gear placement you could lead crack climbs with lots of gear pretty safely even if they do approach or even exceed your ability). But the real challenges to leading are as much mental as they are technical, and you can only master them by leading, and by leading climbs that will cause you to take leader falls. Once you have the fundamentals mastered, I think aid climbing is a good way to get better at placing gear and knowing what will hold, but sewing up an A-1 crack is not the same as leading a more "normal" trad climb.

I would recommend going to the Great Northern Slab at Index or to any one of the easier crags in Icicle Creek. These places are less steep than Tieton or Vantage, so you will be able to stand around in balance while you fool with your gear. Also, placing gear at either Tieton or Vantage is trickier. At Tieton, the cracks are often wider inside than on the edge, which can make visual inspection more difficult and causes cams to walk though it frequently offers bomber hex placements where you insert a piece and let it drop to a secure setting from which your second may have difficulty removing it. At Vantage, the smooth-sided cracks and soft rock make gear placement both more challenging and less secure than granite.

For any size smaller than finger-size, the wire greatly facilitates placement and removal and I'm not sure if they even sell them to be slung anymore (the smallest hex's used to take 4mm or 5mm cord). In any larger size, I rarely see anybody using the wired hexes for the reasons stated here. I carry no wired hex's because in the smaller sizes I prefer (wired) stoppers because they generally set more securely.

So it's agreed: The Bait Shop. 5517 Seaview NW. All the legends of NW climbing will be there.

How about the Bait Shop, in Ballard? That's east of Puget Sound, isn't it?

Someone stated on this board that he was.

I'll be in the 'Gunks this weekend. We'll be climbing moderates. See you and a thousand other climbers there.

You didn't ask this question, but if you want a slightly shorter hike to larch trees and views of granite peaks, Colchuch Lake would be a good choice.

I used to think Aasgard was the way to go because, while the distance and elevation gain to the middle of the Enchantments (Lake Viviane below Prussik Peak) was the same, I preferred to spend my time at high elevation where I could be enjoying the subalpine environment and broader views. However, in recent years I have taken to favoring the Snow Creek approach because the trail is a little easier and in the event of bad weather or darkness I'd rather hike out through the trees than over a high pass and down a slightly treacherous talus slope. Also, I'd rather walk on an old carriage road than contribute to the erosion on the Aasgard route.

I like the idea of the carving. And I don't think it inappropriate for it to be near the base of the route, though I wouldn't want to see such a thing be large or obtrusive. I share the concern expressed here for setting a precedent that might encourage others to carve away at the crags for their own reasons, but I don't think it would be bad for climbers to be stimulated to think of Göran in that beautiful location where they might reflect on his life of climbing and nor do I think it would be bad for them to be reminded in such a vivid way that the activitiy they are participating in is a dangerous one. I do not find the crosses you see on the roadsides in many nations to be ghoulish but, rather, provacative in a way that causes us to think about the value of human life and the danger inherant in driving a car.

Snakefinger really used to rock. Maybe we should have a pubclub special event at the EMP (that is where the Residents played last time and I'm hoping they're playing there again because it is a fun space). Sexy - where and when??

Lisa: At most pubclubs, people start showing up around 7:00 and start leaving aroiund 9:00 but there is usually a second wave of rabble rousers who don't show up until 9:00 and I doubt there has been one yet where there weren't some people there 'till at least 11:00. LawGoddess: I didn't mean to sound too snotty but you gotta admit it is a little odd to appear for only five minutes and then complain that nobody was there. Had you reserved that specific five minutes in advance you might have a complaint. OK, maybe you were there for ten minutes.

But SPRAY DETRACTS FROM PUBCLUB. Northwest legends like David Parker gotta get their shit together if they are going to show up, and all the bickering and last minute changes keep them away.

David, I heard rumor about this: was it you who pushed Mr S. off the edge?

I believe Lowell Skoog commented on this idea in his discussion of a Journal last winter. Because webpages are rather transient, it might be a good idea if someone were to undertake to periodically search for and "archive" what climbing history or route information appears on the web, but on the otherhand we should consider whether this may discourage the sharing of information if somebody has concerns about whether or not their ascent was "worthy" or whether it might generate controversy or something. I believe Clint Cummins set out to archive some of the information about Squire Creek Wall that was posted on the C&S website and that he transcribed and consolidated some of the information and put it on his page for a while (if my memory is correct, he gave credit for the source). Anyway, I think it may now be gone so maybe the original author took offense at this or perhaps Clint Cummins thought better of it for some other reason. What is the protocol for copying information off the net? Wasn't the original idea that everything should be "open source" and isn't that why you have the "view source" option on your web browser? Now that businesses are using the web for commercial activity the original idea may no longer be valid but doesn't somebody who puts something on the web assume that people are going to download and copy and print and manipiulate their information?

Didn't you read about the death of Mr. Smokeout? A tragic turn of events. He will be missed.

Another Northwest Legend weighs in against cc.com. See what you guys have done?