mattp

The W. Ridge of Forbidden is fantastic, but the bozo factor takes away considerably from my enjoyment of the route. I enjoyed the NW Face - and certainly enjoyed it more than I did the W. Ridge - because of its more remote start and more complex approach, the high bivvy that we did, and then the fact that we just plain had fun on the route. I'm not sure it is a "better route," but a "better choice," perhaps, if one is looking for something resembling an alpine experience. And I haven't climbed it but I think the N. Ridge probably is more the classic alpine ridge climb than the W. Ridge. The West Ridge, on a fair weather weekend in July, is not something that I would want to repeat any time soon unless I had some partner who was only interested in the tick list.

I understand the tick list, Erik, but what I'm saying is that for Forbidden, Liberty Bell, and Shuksan I think the list misses better nearby options. And on Mount Rainier, the "classic" status of Liberty Ridge draws the unknowing to their deaths. Watch out for that tick list.

What do you folks think about Liberty Crack? It is clearly the classic line, has a classy name, and is historic -- but I'm talking about the climbing. The rock is clean and nice for five pitches and then it generally goes to hell, and diagonal's off into a bunch of crumbling "rock" with bushes. For aid climbing, isn't Index Town wall better? For an Alpine rock climb, isn't the E. Buttress of the S. Spire more fun?

He told me yesterday that he expects to have it out in a month or something. Tripple that, and it will still be available by the time the real Darrington climbing season gets under way. Lots of folks will be wanting to head up there as soon as possible, but summer begins the week after 4th of July, right?

I think the issue with the Price is that it gets a hundred times the attention that it would get if it were not in that book, and some feel it may even be a poor choice. I would not describe the Price Glacier route as "garbage" but a climb of that route will require you to spend more time beneath seracs, cornices, avalanche-prone slopes and rockfall than all but a few other routes in the entire State -- like maybe Willis Wall or possibly something on the East side of Mount Adams. Then, after you "top out," you are nowhere near the top of the mountain and will likely either descend without climbing the summit pyramid or, if you have the extra time and energy, some parties do walk around to the south side of the mountain and complete their climb with all the hoards that came up the Sulphide or the Fischer Chimneys. In my opinion, Nooksack Tower is the real prize in that cirque. It is not without its own dangers, and it definitely has some bad rock on it, but it is cool.

How 'bout April 26-27. That's before May, and the road is certainliy going to be open by then. Mr. Parker?

The basin on the NE side of Frisco is a very good ski bowl. In telelmark boots, I once found the last 200 feet to be more than I wanted to scramble without a rope or ice axe, but if you were up there planing to climb the thing I bet it wouldn't be very hard.

I have heard it postulated that if you fold it, and particularly if you fold it the same way every time, you will cause more damage than stuffing because you will develope creases and/or stress the same places every time. However, it seems apparent that there are more "folds" or more "crunching," if you stuff it. I bet this debate could be one of those unaswerable chicken-and-egg things. I think the answer is really dependent on your personality type. Do you, or how do you, fold your tee shirts before you throw them into your bureau? When you pull one out, do you try to leave the others undisturbed?

I've been there twice at that time of year and did plenty of climbing each time. You CAN get snow or rain, and I had a pretty exciting time retreating from the wall when this happened to us on the Half Dome once in May, but the above statements that it can clear up and dry off quickly are right on. In my opinion, May is the best month of the year to go to the Valley because the waterfalls are roaring, the days are long, and the summer crowds have not quite hit yet. If you're there when the moon is full, check out the moonbow on Yosemite Falls.

To carry the "doubles" (those that are, what, 48") I fold it in two and clip the two ends together. Then, when I hang it over a shoulder along with the "singles," all I have to do is to unclip the biner from one end, and pull it off my shoulder. Note that if you do this, the biner is not actually clipped to the sling at all if you should straighten the whole thing out witout first unclipping one end.

Not if we go to a bowling alley owned by that *&^%% who fired my ex friends second cousin for no reason.

About a month ago we talked here about having a Spring get-together in a Seattle park. Golden Gardens was nice last year, and it would work again. Alternatively, we might want to get a picnic shelter at Woodland Park, or Magnuson Park or someplace - the ones at Golden Gardens are too close to the street and traffic and too public. With a picnic shelter, there'd be rain coverage if it was drippy outside and so there'd be a more readily identifiable meeting place so those who aren't pubclub regulars would not fear they might not find us (once in a while we get this question here on the board -- how will I recognize you guys at pub club -- so I am sure it is a concern for some). Regarding hours: I don't know what the closure hours are for the picnic shelters, but we could find out. The various parks probably all have consistent closure policies, but enforcement and on-the-ground reality may vary. I know that Golden Gardens is always heavily patrolled in May and June because of all the high school partying. When I've gone there in September, we've been able to stay there as late as we wanted. The UW Climbing Rock would be cool, but I wonder if we might have a problem with the rent-a-cops. Officially, the rock is not a fully public facility and the grounds there are not really intended to be used as a park.

Just the weekend before last, the game warden or somebody told my friend that he could not climb at either The Bend or Royal Collums. My friend said the guy was unpleasant about it, as well, and I can't imagine my buddy being the slightest bit rude or threatening.

Particularly if it is windy, and more often when the rock is not quite vertical, but in either case quite often when the cliff has lots of bushes or flakes or loose blocks, I often do not tie a knot in the ends of the rope before I throw it. In these situations I am frightened by the possibility that I could rappel right off the end, but I have already decided that I am more worried about the possibility of getting the rope stuck somewhere I don't want it to be stuck or pulling a block on my head. So I just rappel slowly and cautiously, ever mindful of the danger should I lose track of the end of the rope or lose control of the rappel. This is one of those scary situations that lead me to walk off a climb rather than rappel if there is a reasonable walk-off option.

I think there are two sides to this issue, and I tilt slightly to the anti-rappel route camp but I can understand some of the arguments or it. In my view, the trail IS a sandy mess and people DO get hurt on it - on a regular basis. Usually it is only a sprained ankle or something, but I believe that over the years there have been broken legs and perhaps worse (wasn't there a tumble and head injury a few years back?). I agree with those who say that, given the chance, they just about always will walk off rather than rappel -- but there are times when, in failing light, I might have opted for a rappel route rather than walking down that trail if I knew it was a "good" rappel route. I'm not so concerned about the erosion issue, because the sandy soil in that canyon has erosion gullies all over it with or without climber-traffic. But I'm mostly interested in safety and convenience when it comes to what is in my view essentially a crag climb, and not a wilderness experience. On the other hand, I absolutely agree with the idea that if people start feeling free to add bolts at will on Snow Creek Wall, the place will fill up with sport climbs and this traditional playground will be forever altered for the worse. There are lots of sport crags out there, and we are seeing an increasing number of multipitch sport climbs in Washington, so I don't think it would be a serious crimp in any sport-climber's style to leave Snow Creek Wall as it is, and with its historic and very enjoyable climbs like Orbit, Mary Jane, Iconoclast, and Outer Space, I like the wall in its present form. In addition, I agree that a multipitch rappel on steep terrain can be a dangerous matter and that, if the rappel route becomes popular, we are almost certainly going to see people epic when they get their rope stuck, rappel off the end of their rope, or drop a friction device, or whatever.

I'd agree with those who agree with Off. But I'd also add that local practices can vary. The last time I went to visit my childhood crag at Grand Ledge, Michigan, the standard "dibbs" system was not in practice due to a concern for cliff-top erosion, and the expectation was that folks would hang their top ropes on the crag (it is all top-roping there) at the beginning of the day and leave them there all day long. If you weren't willing to let everybody and their dog use your rope, you really weren't supposed to even hang one. And everybody would just walk back and forth, using ropes that had been set by somebody else. My point is that, even if there are rules that apparently make sense, you gotta ask around if you aren't sure.

On low angled granite, I've worn out my chalk bag and harness by sitting on them at belays.

Check your p.m.'s

Also, it is not that far and the brush is not all that thick if you set off cross country from Morrison Creek campground, and the road usually opens that far much earlier than it does to Cold Springs.

If the M'pick road system is the one I'm thinking of, I'm looking for a partner to go in there and ski Rahm. It's been on my hit list for several years and I just hadn't wanted to go bash brush for what I assumed would be five miles of overgrown logging road.

I've thought the Zoo was pretty comfortable in the past. The place is pretty large but not all that crowded on Tuseday nights, so I don't think even the most smoke sensitive have had much of a problem and sitting upstairs, we've had plenty of room. Parking can be a problem but it's no worse than, say, the Ballroom. And easy access from I-5.

ChucK is right that most of the climbs at Static Point have had their hardware upgraded while the two that he mentions have not. However, some of the upgrades have not been as good as they could be and On Line (the most popular climb on the crag) has a number of 3/8" bolts that are not fully driven and some of the belay stations look sketchy to climbers who are used to modern chain anchors and stainless steel bolts. It will be difficult to upgrade these bolts without making a mess out of it, though, so I would highly encourage anybody who wants to clean it up to learn as much as possible about it before they go. At Static Point or anywhere, I would also suggest that anyone replacing bolts take the extra time to remove the old ones so new bolts can go in the same holes wherever possible. Also, I think it is worthwhile to spend the extra money for high quality stainless steel bolts and hangers. I like powder coated hangers because the baked on finish lasts longer than any paint job you could do at home. For belay stations, I prefer the Fixe stations (again, powder coated) but there are good arguments for the more standard sport-crag setup. I don't advocate setting up crag climbs with belay (rappel) stations requiring webbing, because the resulting heaps of old webbing make it impossible to clip directly into a bolt hanger, they can be downright scary, and these belay stations are ugly from afar.

Bronco- I think a Mafia stranglehold on a poor Italian neighborhood might be a closer analogy for Saddam and "his people." To be sure, he is terrorizing and exploiting them but there is also a web of family or tribal relationships and a shared cultural heritage that helps facilitate the Iraqi's maintenance of control.

I agree with some of what you said, Ursa, but wouldn't it be at least a little better if they weren't so blatantly spewing propaganda and dstroying our tradition of a supposed "free press?"

Glasgowkiss- One of the things that most disturbs me about this war is that the whole discussion is so permeated by U.S. government lies, and neither the Democrats or the press are willing to address this most disturbing issue. Yes, Saddam is a bad guy and it may well be necessary for us to go in and take him out -- but do we have to shred any U.S. credibility by having our leaders spew forth a steady stream of obvious bullshit? Consider (1) the supposed connections between Iraq and the terrorists they were supposedly arming and harboring have all or nearly all turned out to be mis-stated or completely blown out of proportion; (2) the alleged nuclear program that was supposed to be three months from producing a nuclear bomb did not exist; (3) the aluminum tubes that were said to be for production of nuclear weapons grade material when minimal inquiry would have allowed us to conclude they could not be used for that purpose; (4) the ludicrous denial that this has ANYTHING to do with oil wealth; (5) the constant announcements that we have located a chemical weapons facility or evidence of biological weapons which turns out to be unfounded; (6) the widespread hatred of the Iraqi regime that was going to cause our troops to be invited into the country as liberators and facilitate an easy invasion in a quick war; (7) there was no budget item for the war because they could not even begin to estimate the cost of the war before the Congressional debate but the very next day they were able to announce that they had already spent -- what was it -- 30 billion? -- just to get the troops over there to set up..... etc. etc. Don't get me wrong. I hope we win this war -- and quickly. But in the meantime the Bush administration is destroying our credibility around the world and driving a huge wedge right into the heart of our society here at home. They apparently think the public cannot remember what they say from one week to the next, because they are making a habit of saying whatever they think sounds good at the moment, without any concern for whether they can substantiate it or not, and they then say something completely different when, a day or a week or a month later, it serves their purposes. And they seem to be right: I don't think most people remember that Bush said Saddam was three months from producing a nuclear weapon and then the U.N. reports, which Bush people did not at all refute, concluded that there was no active program. And on and on. Wouldn't it be better for them to understate their case and then have it shown that not only were they right but that they are more than right -- then to continuously overstate their case and then be shown to have exaggerated or lied? Wouldn't it be interesting to see somebody say: "excuse me, Mr. Rumsfeld, but didn't you say "ABC" on February 15 and then "XYZ" was shown to be the case on February 16? When did you learn about "XYZ?" If you didn't know about "XYZ," how can we be confident that you are making well-informed decisions in this matter? Etc.....