mattp

As of May 2, the road is open and the climbs are drying out in between rainstorms. Snow lingers at the base of some of the crags.

Our reactions to learning of "near misses" and accidents differ, but I think we do tend to feel differently about it depending on our own judgment about whether the person involved was acting somehow foolish or irresponsible. It is all very subjective, but if someone gets killed because of a freak accident it is a different matter than if they go out and attempt a known death route in bad weather. Or, when reacting to a solo climbing accident, the pain and shock we feel is probably just as deep either way if it is someone close to us but there are a lot more thoughts and emotions involved besides grief. To some, simply venturing into the mountains or onto the crag by one's self is akin to playing Russian Roulette and if anything at all happens, they may be thinking "see, I told you so" or "climbers like that reflect poorly on the sport." Those who go on solo climbs themselves may be thinking "Hmm... could this happen to me?" or I'm a safe climber because I would never do what that person did. " Or whatever. These judgments affect our emotional feelings about the accident.

I have picnic shelter number 1 reserved for us. It is the easiest to find, and it is the only one with a fireplace. If it is a damp or cold evening, we'll be glad for that. Anybody got firewood? By the way, the woman who took my reservation pointed out that alcohol is not allowed in any city park. Please be advised of this fact .... Jon asked about whether we might have a slide show, and I hope to go down there and check to see if there is power. If not, we'll have to settle for looking at Liberty Ridge through the binoculars. Any other ideas?

Either route is just fine and I think they are fairly similar in terms of steepness though the worm flows route starts a little lower. It is all pretty much intermediate level skiing, though the conditions can vary quit a bit. If you head further around to the west, things get a little steeper. Have fun.

Nice post, Paco. You are absolutely right, in talking about soloing, when you say that "the margin of safety is significantly decreased" and that "the importance of climbers' actions and decisions are increased [even more] as less gear taken" but, for me, it is always more than that. When climbing alone, I find everything FEELS much more serious even when it may in fact not be. On every significant solo climb I have undertaken, there has always been at least some period of time - even if only momentarily - where I seriously started to doubt whether the whole thing was a good idea. I have experienced this while soloing relatively easy routes on a rock crag or while slogging up a standard glacier hike, as well as when attempting unclimbed routes on a remote mountain wall. In my case, I never thought about whether this would introduce me to the world of the "elite," (I'm distorting what you said slightly, I know) but I came at it more from an equally self-indulgent fantasy that I was going to learn something really deep from the whole business - along the lines of some native American visionquest of something. As a teenager, I thought it was cool to go sit on a mountain top and fast and stuff like that, then I started making long backcountry tours alone and found great pleasure in the ability to find solitude deep in the winter wilderness, and it was after that that I started soloing real climbs. My point, if I have one, is that all of us are driven by different motives whenever we head out to climb, but it is all really rather questionable if you stop to think about it. And solo climbing is probably more questionable than lots of other things we do, but maybe no more foolish than skiing avalanche slopes after a fresh dump of snow or climbing some Canadian Rockies chossheap behind a party of climbers who is throwing stones at you or leading some runout testpiece on the local crag. All of us need to constantly ask ourselves what we are doing, why, and how it may affect our future and our families' future.

He has been working on the green book, and last Summer he posted on cascadeclimbers.com asking for information for his revision. See the Cascade Alpine Guide Vol2 Corrections thread in the North Cascades Route Reports forum. I believe the new volume is supposed to come out this season.

Take the 65th street exit and head EAST about 4 miles or so, staying on the main arterial where it curves around a ridge near the end and then drops down a hill. At Sand Point Way, head straight into the "park" passing the old Sand Point Naval Station PX and, at the very end of the street, look for a parking area off to the right. Coming from the East side, though, you may want to exit from 520 at Montlake Way, then head north and stay to the right to get onto 45th Street after about a mile, and follow the main arterial which will become Sand Point Way. After about two miles, turn right on 65th, and head past the old PX. I think Picnic Shelter 1 is probably the best for our group because it is the largest (with 5 barbeque grills so Greg can bring a 5 legged cow) and it has a fireplace. Park hours are 'till 11:30 p.m. so we ought to be able to enjoy some campfire stories. It is a kid-friendly place and dog-friendly as well so there is no excuse for not showing up!

I am going to put up a map and general invitation and all that stuff. In order to get it all together, I need to know who is going to coordinate which events: So far, Dwayner is going to lead a discussion group on how to get overcome a sport-climbing habit, Jon is going to talk about privacy and civil rights on cc.com after Patriot II, and there is going to be a buldering contest on the nearby submarine fins.

I like the Mountaineer Creek approach and the Sherpa Glacier descent, though we have debated this before and I know that most people go in via Ingalls and there are many who will argue that it is the ONLY way to go.

Catbird- I think you may be a little mixed up here. I doubt most parties that climb Ptarmigan Ridge go anywhere near White River. I agree that an ice tools is not the best thing for glacier travel, though.

What is with you folks? Are you not getting laid lately or something? Everybody wants to hop on the bandwagon and bash Michelle, then Lambone, and now its Allison who is taking a beating. This is getting rediculous.

I don't think you will get a clear answer as to what is "standard." I am sure the route was done originally without any technical ice climbing tool, and plenty of people have done it with a single ice axe whereas others bring two water ice tools. It is going to vary depending on the climber's personal style and background and also on the conditions....

There were four or five of them eating a dead deer on the roadside over near the Squirrel Tree Sunday p.m. Maybe they were hoping for some dead climber over in the Icicle.

That is basically my point, Ed. Light-and-fast is only one style - it is not the only commendable style. While it has its pleasures and may be a good choice some times, it may be a poor choice other times and nobody should be embarassed to admit that they camped at Colchuck Lake the night before and after their climb, for example, or that they actually carried a pack on Outer Space.

I think you guys are right: the City of Destiny is damn nice and we owe you a visit. But what's with everyone staying in Leavenworth when the Spring Party was in Mazama????

Allison is not the only one who whines about pubclub every week and tries to change the venue at 4:00 pm the day of the event.

In the interest of fairness and the American Way, I should report that the snaffles' get a bad rap around here. I recently left some hiking shoes along the roadside in Eightmile Creek for two weeks and when I went back to get them, the little bitty cutie critters had only chewed me a nice new fringe around the edges.

Ohh, but it is such a yuppiefukfuk place, too expensive, smoky, with no parking, owned by a jerk, and ALL THE WAY ACCROSS TOWN!!!!!!! I won't go there.... I won't .... really I mean it .....

Dryad - Didn't you notice when I changed the topic of this thread to "May 7, Seattle CC.Com Barbeque?" I'll call the parks department and reserve it -- Shelter #3. I'm going to sign up as an avatar. Greg - There are two barbeque grills in the picnic shelter. If it looks like we'll have large attendance, I can bring another.

Juan- I have a similar concern about the effect of the current fad for car-to-car and light-is-right speed ascents. I believe folks are talking each other into running up and down some fairly serious mountain routes without taking adequate gear to even survive a night out should they suffer something as benign as a sprained ankle. And I think all the chatter on cc.com may be causing folks to take even bigger risks by doing this alone or when pushing their ability levels. I'm not commenting specifically on Stefan or Paco's climbs, but on a general trend.

How about a "we don't need a poll" option. There was one person who indicated they would prefer the 8th, I think, and at least one who would prefer the 7th. Nobody has said it matters all that much either way, but I believe that, all things being equal (weather) there will be fewer other people there on a wednesday night than a thursday night. For a successful barbeque, the main thing is to pick a date and a location and NOT to have the usual stupidity we have over discussing where to have pubclub each week. That way folks who have a life other than cc.com can plan ahead. We might even see some new faces there.

I know I sound like a broken record here, but I just went down to the basement and checked my old pairs of skis that I have neglected for years and years. To my barbaric eyes, my 1983 Karhu XCD's, my 1987 Karhu Extreme's, and the old downhill boards with the mountaineering bindings on them show no signs of cracked, delaminated, or shrunken ptex. And I'm sure they've each gone without any base wax for literally years at a time. But if you saw me ski, you'd probably conclude that I ski as if I'm driving that old truck rather than the sports car....

Fleb - You should have just skied the logs. That last one we crossed was the perfectly calibrated anti-tuning device.

Thanks, Carl. I've always wondered about this. So I've let my bases dry out and, it seems, and my skis are now a little slower than they would otherwise be. I guess I just don't care that much because I have never noticed this to be a problem. But if anything, I guess, I'd rather have skis that are too slow than too fast for ski mountaineering where I'm not racing anybody but I may be worried about being able to turn tightly enough in a narrow gully, losing it over a cliff, or running into a rock or tree.