mattp

Tim's got a point, though. "Performance" thread

In a thread about what I termed a "truly moderate" climb, TimL brought the "modern" perspective to the discussion and said: "wake up people, 5.10 is moderate." He's right. In today's world, 5.10 IS considered moderate. The drive toward performance rock climbing has changed many many things about the sport. There's always been competition involved and folks have worked at gaining strength and technique as long as there has been rock climbing but, back in olden times, most of us climbed at crags so we could gain skills for the mountains, John Gill was just about the only American climber who worked out so he could do one-arm pull ups or maybe even one-finger pull ups, and nobody admitted to "working a route" in order to make a "redpoint." Performance rock climbing. What do you like and dislike about it?

Those look like good hangers, Fern, and their relatively light weight is a plus. They are shiny stainless steel, though, and I'd rather see folks spring for powder-coated hangers 'cause paint doesn't adhere to stainless steel very well (better if you rough it up). A significant part of bolting controversies involves the visual impact and, for crag climbing, at least, I think we should do everything we can to reduce it. This includes not only limiting where you drill, but doing things like using powder coated hangers and setting top anchors or rappel stations that won't gather wads of sling.

I'd have to say that I agree with JoshK and DBerdinka too. Recreational snowmobilng is an abomination, to be sure. However, I'm just noting that they ARE limited to one side of one glaciated mountain in the entire state, and that in fact we climbers are not necessarily more environmentally oriented. Yes, our hiking boots do not tear up the meadows as badly as a snowmobile tread - but some of us think nothing of destroying vegetation that gets in our way, moving boulders and cutting down trees to make staging areas or "landing zones," littering red bull cans and tape and chalk all over the place, and driving a thousand miles in some gas guzzling menace just to tick one of the routes in Fifty Classic Climbs. Our sport does do less damage to the environment and may even be less impactful both on other users and the environment than snowmobiling, horespacking, hunting and fishing, but we are not without our own impacts.

Best Troll: Sweet Granite in Renton Best Avatar: I always kind of liked "Smokey McPot." Thinker's avatar pic was awesome. Best Thread? There's been too many to count. Cavey and GlasgowKiss get my vote for best comeback from the banned. Both of them retain some of their original "flavor" but they are playing ball now rather than simply throwing bombs.

Nope. The goldline rope didn't break ("goldline" looked like hemp, but it was made of nylon; you couldn't smoke it). I fell about 15 or 20 feet of "Strictly from Nowhere" (I think it's 5.6), shook myself off, and went back up to finish the pitch. My first "Alpine" climb, too, was bigger than what most people would undertake for their first climb these days: the Soutwest Ridge on the Grand, which I think is a grade III but certainly a long grade II. I had probably not led more than six pitches total before I went there and swung leads up it. Crusty old guys will tell you that kids these days are a bunch of wimps, but I just think times have changed and its a different orientation. We didn't used to think you had to climb at least 5.11 to consider yourself a decent climber, either. High performance is in, and "adventure" is somewhat out. Part of the difference is that most of us "back in the day" got into climbing with a backpacking background, and it grew as an extension of mountain exploration rather than an extension of gym climbing.

For most new climbers these days, ChucK, I AM saying that any climb that requires gear placement skills and particularly one that requires you to read ten books by John Long in order to "build a belay" is not a novice climb. "Back in the day," I undertook my first lead ever on a 5.6 ovehang in the Gunks and I fell off it. But that's not how people do it these days. I bet most new modern climbers' feelings about Midway is more like those who have, in this vary thread, said that the pro on Midway is a little sketchy and it is not one for the beginning leader. (As I indicated, I slightly disagree about that but ...) Call it whatever you want. If you want to describe it as a "novice" climb that is fine by me. I think it is indeed a perfect climb to take a novice on -- to show them what REAL rock climbing is all about.

We have this rant about snowmobiles on Mount Baker every year on this bulletin board. In my view, you should simply go somewhere else if snowmobilers really offend you all that much. That pie-shaped slice of Mount Baker is the only glaciated alpine area in the State where they are allowed to go. Occasionally one of them violates the boundary and rides to the true summit or over on the Coleman, but I bet you'll never see them on the Boulder Glacier or any one of the other dozen glaciers on the mountain. And then there are about 500 other glaciated peaks in the state. Yes, they are noisy and smelly machines. The guys who I've met and talked to on the Easton Glacier, though, are not a bunch of beer-swilling metal heads; they are much closer to us mountain climbers than some of you realize. And most of them try to show some consideration for skiers and climbers who may be on the mountain at the same time. How many of you better-than-them ski mountaineers will show any consideration for them?

In today's world, Midway is not usually considered a "beginner's climb," Chuck. It has three pitches and you gotta use gear. However, coming from a gym and sport-climbing performance mentality, I hear lots of people calling 5.10 moderate. In my book, 5.10, even in the gym, is not "truly moderate." 5.10 cracks can rip up my hands and 5.10 crimpers on some sport climb can tear tendons. The hard men will call me a chump with poor technique, but I just don't call that "truly moderate."

To test your snow anchors, simply find a place where you have a steep slope with a flat area beneath it. Set your anchor on the steeps, and stand below and jump and down, pulling on your rope. Sometimes, an anchor that looks like garbage can hold four people pulling and jumping as hard as they can; in wet unconsnolidated mush, the best anchor you can muster will pull right out.

Good choice! That Kill da Wabbit pitch is my favorite one up there.

The first pitch protects just fine if you have one or preferably two #4 Camelots on your rack, but you are right that Midway should not be taken lightly by an inexperienced leader. There are lots of polished, flaring cracks and someone who doesn't know good pro from bad would definitely be at risk. Having said that, I don't think there is a place on the route that you can't plug in every three feet if you want to (maybe the last 30 feet of 5.1).

Michael had made a grant total of two or three trips to the gym before this climb. That's it. Both of them appeared to enjoy it, and we had a pretty good day!

Snugtop, her friend Michael, and I climbed Midway yesterday. In my view, it is the best truly moderate rock climb in the State. Midway has great exposure, comfortable belay ledges, good pro without bolts, and varied climbing. The rock is great, and the exposure on the last pitch is impossible to beat! I believe the route may have been incorrectly depicted in five or more successive guidebooks. Fred made the first ascent in ‘47 or ‘48, and he can't really remember how they went but I'm starting to think they probably climbed straight up after the famous step-across and then traversed right into the chimney corner system above the narrow slot that the guidebooks direct you through. The "standard" Midway route is technically easier, but that slot sucks and the higher traverse is definitely the way to go. Most parties climb it via this higher traverse. I think that Brooks/Carlstad may have been incorrect in the first place, and that their "error" may have been faithfully reproduced by Brooks/Whitelaw, Smoot, Smoot, and two successive books from Kramer. Does anybody have any info on this?

The Nickerson is right accross the street from the Mortuary. You can't miss it.

Once I came around a corner on the Snow Creek trail to notice that all the bushes and trees in one small area were literally dripping with them. I've always thought they hang ouit primarily in the bushes, ready to pounce. However, on Saturday I was over at Tieton and after getting fried in the sun, I went and lay down in the shade for a few minutes. Not five minutes passed before I felt one crawling on me and it turned out I had picked up 15 of the little bastards!

We may want to try to head to North Bend on a slightly more optimistic forecast:

Have fun!

Pete and Bryan did report a climb there a few years back, and somebody from the Department of Wildlife or maybe Fish and Wildlife or whatever asked them not to promote the climb because there were birds nesting on it. They have respected that request. Given everything else in the area, you can imagine what the rock is like. We are probably not missing out Washington's answer to the Squamish Chief.

CP is right that the ridge between Ellinor and Washington is sharp in "some places." Especially with cornices and such, it would be a pretty good feat to stay on the actual crest the whole way. If you simply want to connect the two peaks, I think it is preferable to drop into Jefferson Creek than to traverse the "front" side. You won't get your couple of pitches of class 4 that way, though, except the summit block itself on Washington may resemble class 4 for a very short bit at this time of year. Here's Ellinor as seen from Washington, a little later in the Spring. (from Eric's Basecamp site) And here's looking back the other way: In both pictures, you can see the open snow slopes in Jefferson Creek that connect the two peaks via short gullies at either end.

I spoke to the biologist about this annual closure when she was at last Fall's cc.com ropeup. She explained to me that this pair is one of two pairs of Pergrine Falcon's that nest in the entire Leavenworth Disrict. It that is so, I think we ought to be willing to cooperate with this annual closure even though it comes in the part of the year where we're all itching to get out on the crags. It's not like there is no place else to climb around Leavenworth.

Right on "main street" (I'm not sure the actual name, but its the old Snoqualmie highway), there is a grill -- maybe it's the North Bend Grill or something like that. We've gone there in the past and they treated us just fine.

An important consderation is ease of preparation and clean up. Most of the proposals here invlove little or no cooking. Good idea. Ramen-type things are easy to choke down when you're not feeling 100%, but they don't mave a lot of calories. You can add stuff like cheese and sausage for calories, but fatty stuff like that can be hard to digest when you're not doing well. Nuts and dried fruit and stuff that is munchables straight from a plastic bag and you don't have to make any decision about how much to prepare are popular. I've seen lots of people use mre's or similar foods, but these are heavy. They ARE real easy to deal with, though.

If you don't understand the difference between capital improvement projects and educational programs, and how they are subject to different criteria and their funding comes from different sources, you must not understand much about large educational institutions and must also not care to. It'd be hard to argue with your premise that there are lots of wasteful construction or expansion projects underway at pretty much every college campus you can think of, and even at lots of grade-school and high school campuses as well. But "education?" There is certainly waste here, too. You can quote Rush Limbaugh about the latest degree program in something ridiculous, I'm sure. But folks who argue that cutting off the funds is going to improve the situation are really just promoting further reductions in funding, and nothing more. The schools that you think suck so bad are only going to get worse if you "hit 'em where it counts."

March 20, Icicle Buttress: