mattp

They won't put the computers in the mines because they everybody would be logging onto cc.com instead of digging up the coal.

No point, really. I just think Gary is an OK guy.

It is all one big dogpile down here in the mud. You're the asshole... no YOU'RE the asshole...

ChucK, I don't think Gary is any more socially retarded than those who call him an asshole. Really.

Jay - Ever seen the big hole in Butte Montana, or heard about the salt mines beneath Detroit? Your statement about ALL mining taking place exclusively in remote areas is simply incorrect and I wonder if you know what you are talking about with the wages, too. I'd be willing to guess that those who work in a West Virginia coal mine are not paid a great wage, though I suppose it may be higher than the guy pumping gas or working in the local grocery store -- do you have any information on this? Note: I'm pretty sure that day laborers in Seattle make no "premium" wages, but you can get guys to do any dirty job you want if you drive down a certain block on Western Avenue.

I don't read Gary's post as belittling anybody. True, poor grammar is not necessarily indicative of a lack of sophistication or whatever (look at our president), and Gary may have made an assumption that some of you feel is not justified, but those of you who read "insult" into Gary's post are making your own assumptions too. He didn't call the speaker stupid, ignorant, or really anything necessarily perjorative except that he assumed that workers exposed to documented and uncorrected safety hazards in a coal mine are probably being taken advantage of.

Jens: I think I still have a folding chair you left at rope-up two years ago.

For an all ages event, we might try the Wedgewood Ale house some time. They have a back room with a side entrance where they serve pizza and stuff to a family crowd.

Yup. We have on one or two occasions met at a pizza place which wasn't but other than that they've all been 21+. The College Inn is at the corner of 40th and University Ave, in the basement, and we've frequently headed for a smallish back room in the basement in part to avoid smoke, but I guess that won't be so important this time.

I've never used them but plenty of people do, and it seems to me they are perfectly suited to MOST Cascade climbs. They will lose their sharpness faster than harder metal, I havn't seen any designed for waterfall climbing, and as Oly noted I'd be a little hesitant to use them for a lot of mixed climbing, but for traction on an icy glacier or for what we call "alpine ice" here in Washington (generally more like icy névé than actual "ice" as you might find in other ranges) they'll be just fine.

the good, the bad and the ugly Opinions vary as to which aspect of this thread is which but this may be the first time someone in Washington ever tried to solicit public feedback when considering altering an existing route by moving or adding a bolt.

Actually, there were several more taunting and otherwise off-track posts that I removed. I don't recall if yours was particularly rude or not. Sorry if you got caught up in vacuum cleaner aimed at other posts. I sought to limit the smart-ass replies to a few posts, leaving a couple of jabs but hoping that perhaps the guy could get some more helpful responses to his question and maybe even return to tell us how much fun he had on Friday night. Silly me.

So you are saying that anybody critical of the President doesn't support the troops or is rooting for the terrorists? There's a place for you on Bush's team.

As far as I know, there have been very few or no successful suits from somone hurt or injured rock climbing (I don't know of the suit over the Chouinard harness was "successful" or not or whether some settlement agreement was negotiated, and there may have been one or two others). Does anybody know of a case where an injured climber or their surviving family member sued and actually won that suit against another climber, a guide, or gear manufacturer, or land manager?

Harry is perhaps referring to the fact that the term "bivouac" carries a connotation of a forced overnight in the middle of a climb somewhere rather than a planned outing to spend the night somewhere relatively comfortably. With a favorable forecast and a large moon, you might well have an enjoyable experience.

That's great Jay. I'm sure glad we can rest easy over the holidays. Now tell me what to think about this: 1. Bush said that those Democrats who criticize him now saw the same intelligence he did before they voted to go to war. He knows they didn’t see the same intelligence as he did, and the vote was to authorize war powers while he was supposed to continue diplomatic efforts from a position of strength. 2. Bush said that those who are criticizing him now argue that if we depart from Iraq the terrorists will stop targeting the U.S. Not one of his critics has ever said that as far as I know. 3. Bush said that he accepted responsibility for intelligence failures, but declined to admit that his administration didn’t use the intelligence they had. For example, the Uranium purchase that they had been told had not occurred, or the aluminum tubes they had been told were not for centrifuges, or the weapons inspectors having told them that the nuclear weapons program had been halted, etc. 4. He said that the Duelfer Report concluded that “Saddam was using the oil-for-food program to influence countries and companies in an effort to undermine sanctions with the intent of restarting his weapons programs” but Duelfer in fact has said that the sanctions program had forced Hussein to STOP the weapons program. 5. Bush said that the terrorists attacked us before we went to Iraq and that they now resolve to continue to attack us and they say they intend to continue to use Iraq as a base of operations. He forgot to mention there was no Iraq Al-Queda connection BEFORE we invaded. 6. Meanwhile, Connie Rice this week continued to deny we had sent prisoners to special prisons in Europe for special treatment, didn’t she? Does anyone here believe THAT? DO you, Jay, believe that he is telling us what their real plans are at this point (to the extent that they have any)?

Yeah. Mission accomplished. I guess we can go home now, right Jay?

If the Democrats and foreign leaders and anybody else with any integrity can't stand up, in response to Bush's speech this morning, and point out how he continues to lie about his efforts to lead us into the Iraq war, the fact that the Democrats saw "the same intelligence as I did," the relationship of this war to a global effort to control terrorism, the arguments of those who criticize him for lack of a plan, and (almost certainly) his/their intentions now, they are irresponsible pathetic losers.

Here's the pubclub X-mas photo card we shot tonight. The cheap bastard is second from left (at least he admits it).

I'll bring a stack of dollar bills if you'll dance on the bar in a G-String, Squid. Otherwise, just show up and maybe we can take a picture for the PubClub Christmas Card. Maybe it will be more "tasteful" if you keep your clothes ON.

Good news! Pombo Watch webpage, December 13, 2005

Who is going to dress up like Santa and hand out presents? I vote for Archie.

I don't think I'd direct somebody new to the debate to study up by reading cc.com, but I agree that it is good to keep the issues alive and this is one place where we can do that.

That last remark was also partly true. It really isn't the end of the world if somebody takes a pot shot at somebody else on cc.com. At least not usually. Sometimes people actually get hurt, scared, or maybe even a law officer takes notes. The cost is that, with the pattern being what it is, there is absolutely no incentive for somebody to even try to have a serious discussion around here. At least not after the third or forth time they get slapped in the face for trying to be real (some require three hundred slaps before they learn their lesson, and others never do). Like I said, though: cc.com is what it is. We have a lot of fun here, and once in a while we actually learn something or meet a new climbing buddy on here. We trade lots of cool pictures, and it gives us something to do when we want to waste time at work.

You are absolutely right. Like I said: carry on. This IS spray. But I'm just observing that it comes at a cost. That is all.